World championship match in Astana

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Nick Ivell
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Re: World championship match in Astana

Post by Nick Ivell » Mon Apr 10, 2023 12:07 pm

These guys don't like staying at the board, do they?

Shades of Spassky v Korchnoi without the hostility. Do they have demonstration boards in their 'rest' rooms, as Spassky did?

Nick Ivell
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Re: World championship match in Astana

Post by Nick Ivell » Mon Apr 10, 2023 1:25 pm

I rest my case. h3 was a lemon.

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Matt Mackenzie
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Re: World championship match in Astana

Post by Matt Mackenzie » Mon Apr 10, 2023 1:56 pm

Ding got an OK position from it, before going downhill quite fast in the middle game.

I thought his indifferent form recently might be classic "reserving the best for a WC match" syndrome.

Perhaps not.
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Nick Ivell
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Re: World championship match in Astana

Post by Nick Ivell » Mon Apr 10, 2023 2:04 pm

That was a terrible performance with the White pieces. Ding is in danger of being crushed in this match.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: World championship match in Astana

Post by Roger de Coverly » Mon Apr 10, 2023 3:31 pm

Nick Ivell wrote:
Mon Apr 10, 2023 1:25 pm
I rest my case. h3 was a lemon.
Later it looked a fairly normal Queens Gambit Accepted. I suppose if you took back h3 in positions arising a bit later, you would have wanted to have played Qe2 instead.

If you wanted to semi waste a move, wouldn't 4 a3 be a better way of doing so?

LawrenceCooper
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Re: World championship match in Astana

Post by LawrenceCooper » Mon Apr 10, 2023 3:36 pm

Nick Ivell wrote:
Mon Apr 10, 2023 1:25 pm
I rest my case. h3 was a lemon.
I don't think h3 worked out badly. It gave him a 30 minute lead on the clock but was squandered playing Nxf6 (missing gxf6 according to Ding in the press conference) instead of Nxc5 which seemed to give a risk free edge. Probably it would have ended in a draw but a minute advantage in a relatively unknown position is often all white can hope for.

Nick Ivell
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Re: World championship match in Astana

Post by Nick Ivell » Mon Apr 10, 2023 3:42 pm

Seems a pretty easy thing to miss.

Giri seemed sure that NxN or NxP was a straight choice, and must have formed part of the prep.

Clearly not. Ding was away from the board for what seemed an eternity.

Can these guys not play when they lose track of their files?

LawrenceCooper
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Re: World championship match in Astana

Post by LawrenceCooper » Mon Apr 10, 2023 4:25 pm

Nick Ivell wrote:
Mon Apr 10, 2023 3:42 pm
Seems a pretty easy thing to miss.

Giri seemed sure that NxN or NxP was a straight choice, and must have formed part of the prep.

Clearly not. Ding was away from the board for what seemed an eternity.

Can these guys not play when they lose track of their files?
Given the number of times he's already been over 2800 I would put it down more to what seems like the overwhelming pressure he is feeling judging by his comments at the press conferences and his apparent preference for spending as little time as possible at the board.

Jonathan Rogers
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Re: World championship match in Astana

Post by Jonathan Rogers » Mon Apr 10, 2023 4:27 pm

Before the pandemic, Ding was lethal with White. Not so much through preparation but from always managing to play normal moves, and reaching equal positions with piece play which he then played very well. After the pandemic ... well, it is not just today, and most/all of his White games at Wijk. There were the two disastrous whites at the candidates, against Nepo (immediately again making a misjudgement when out of preparation) and worst of all against Radjabov, when he might have resigned at move 18 or so.

Something is up. He plays as though he is depressed or unwell. 4.h3, that is not preparation, that is anti-preparation. Unless he finds a White repertoire worthy of the occasion, ideally by the end of the week, this match will be one to forget.

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Re: World championship match in Astana

Post by Paul McKeown » Mon Apr 10, 2023 11:22 pm

How am I expected to teach good chess to novices, when some idiot plays 1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 e6 3. Nf3 d5 4. h3 in a world championship match? Ridiculous! It is hard enough to get kids to stop playing h3, h6, a3, a6 at every opportunity without this!
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Paul McKeown
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Re: World championship match in Astana

Post by Paul McKeown » Mon Apr 10, 2023 11:23 pm

Frankly, if I had have played as limply as Ding did today in a London League match, I would have expected my team mates to give me hell!
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Paul McKeown
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Re: World championship match in Astana

Post by Paul McKeown » Mon Apr 10, 2023 11:31 pm

At least we didn't see 4. h3? h6? 5. a3? a6?
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NickFaulks
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Re: World championship match in Astana

Post by NickFaulks » Tue Apr 11, 2023 8:28 am

Paul McKeown wrote:
Mon Apr 10, 2023 11:22 pm
How am I expected to teach good chess to novices, when some idiot plays 1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 e6 3. Nf3 d5 4. h3 in a world championship match?
And when another idiot ( Vishy Anand no less ) says in the commentary that it is an interesting idea which set his opponent some tricky problems over the board and was a good idea in the circumstances of the match.
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LawrenceCooper
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Re: World championship match in Astana

Post by LawrenceCooper » Tue Apr 11, 2023 9:00 am

Anish Giri mentioned in commentary that Ding had the same position (except with Re1 instead of h3) against Aronian in 2021 and played Nxc5 and went on to win a nice game. It makes his decision to take on f6 all the more surprising.

Angus French
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Re: World championship match in Astana

Post by Angus French » Tue Apr 11, 2023 9:32 am

NickFaulks wrote:
Tue Apr 11, 2023 8:28 am
Paul McKeown wrote:
Mon Apr 10, 2023 11:22 pm
How am I expected to teach good chess to novices, when some idiot plays 1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 e6 3. Nf3 d5 4. h3 in a world championship match?
And when another idiot ( Vishy Anand no less ) says in the commentary that it is an interesting idea which set his opponent some tricky problems over the board and was a good idea in the circumstances of the match.
Wouldn't Ding have had a small edge if he'd played 12 Nxc5 rather than 12 Nxf6+?