European Individual 19th March - 1st April 2012

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Jonathan Rogers
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Re: European Individual 19th March - 1st April 2012

Post by Jonathan Rogers » Wed Mar 28, 2012 9:18 pm

I'd say that Kotronias is a good pairing in the circumsatnces - and Adam surely would play a 2640 next, if he won.

Graham Borrowdale

From the sublime to the ludicrous...

Post by Graham Borrowdale » Thu Mar 29, 2012 1:02 pm

Last edited by IM Jack Rudd on Thu Mar 29, 2012 1:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Post moved into thread already discussing the event and the issue in question

John Cox
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Re: European Individual 19th March - 1st April 2012

Post by John Cox » Thu Mar 29, 2012 6:38 pm

Blimey - I venture to predict that Volokitin will not be very pleased with his endgame technique against Gawain. Probably it was harder than it looked.

As to Mamedyarov being defaulted, I believe I read in Kingpin the suggestion that this problem will not go away until players get themselves organised to urinate simultaneously by the board before each round, in order to avoid being defaulted should they leave the board and be unable to return before the round started. In my view this is the answer. I don't suppose it would take more than a couple of incidents before FIDE backed down, if only we can get wide enough participation. Who's with me?

Mike Truran
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Re: European Individual 19th March - 1st April 2012

Post by Mike Truran » Thu Mar 29, 2012 6:52 pm

A further incentive (if one were needed) not to move to zero default times in the 4NCL. :lol:

Jonathan Rogers
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Re: European Individual 19th March - 1st April 2012

Post by Jonathan Rogers » Thu Mar 29, 2012 7:06 pm

John Cox wrote:Blimey - I venture to predict that Volokitin will not be very pleased with his endgame technique against Gawain. Probably it was harder than it looked.

As to Mamedyarov being defaulted, I believe I read in Kingpin the suggestion that this problem will not go away until players get themselves organised to urinate simultaneously by the board before each round, in order to avoid being defaulted should they leave the board and be unable to return before the round started. In my view this is the answer. I don't suppose it would take more than a couple of incidents before FIDE backed down, if only we can get wide enough participation. Who's with me?
I think you'd have to do it when Kirsan is entertaining someone who might make chess an Olympic sport. I think though that even then the FIDE reaction would be to pass a new rule fining such people £5,000 instead.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: European Individual 19th March - 1st April 2012

Post by Roger de Coverly » Thu Mar 29, 2012 8:29 pm

John Cox wrote: As to Mamedyarov being defaulted
According to Steve Giddens at http://stevegiddinschessblog.blogspot.c ... -ride.html , he has been defaulted again, this time for agreeing a draw in under forty moves.

Whilst there's a certain point to Sofia rules with invitation only events like the London Classic, is it really necessary away from the top boards in a monster Swiss? I wonder what will happen in the last round. For some players there will be every incentive to draw quickly so as to ensure qualification for the World Cup.

LawrenceCooper
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Re: European Individual 19th March - 1st April 2012

Post by LawrenceCooper » Thu Mar 29, 2012 8:54 pm

Roger de Coverly wrote:
John Cox wrote: As to Mamedyarov being defaulted
According to Steve Giddens at http://stevegiddinschessblog.blogspot.c ... -ride.html , he has been defaulted again, this time for agreeing a draw in under forty moves.

Whilst there's a certain point to Sofia rules with invitation only events like the London Classic, is it really necessary away from the top boards in a monster Swiss? I wonder what will happen in the last round. For some players there will be every incentive to draw quickly so as to ensure qualification for the World Cup.
Yet the two players on board one are allowed to have a quick draw barely out of the opening because they play out a threefold repetition :?

Richard Bates
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Re: European Individual 19th March - 1st April 2012

Post by Richard Bates » Thu Mar 29, 2012 9:16 pm

LawrenceCooper wrote:
Roger de Coverly wrote:
John Cox wrote: As to Mamedyarov being defaulted
According to Steve Giddens at http://stevegiddinschessblog.blogspot.c ... -ride.html , he has been defaulted again, this time for agreeing a draw in under forty moves.

Whilst there's a certain point to Sofia rules with invitation only events like the London Classic, is it really necessary away from the top boards in a monster Swiss? I wonder what will happen in the last round. For some players there will be every incentive to draw quickly so as to ensure qualification for the World Cup.
Yet the two players on board one are allowed to have a quick draw barely out of the opening because they play out a threefold repetition :?
The irony is that all these silly rules have been introduced because of some idea that it benefits "sponsors", but because chess has hardly any sponsors with genuine commercial interest in the attractiveness of the product there is nobody to point out how ludicrous the whole palava is. What genuine commercial sponsor would favour the enforcement of the zero default rule? Imagine if it happened in a World Championship match with paying spectators!

With reference to the quick draw on board 1 though, now that the precedent has been set it would be amusing if several of the top boards tomorrow concluded after exactly the same sequence of moves :)

LawrenceCooper
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Re: European Individual 19th March - 1st April 2012

Post by LawrenceCooper » Thu Mar 29, 2012 9:23 pm

Richard Bates wrote:
With reference to the quick draw on board 1 though, now that the precedent has been set it would be amusing if several of the top boards tomorrow concluded after exactly the same sequence of moves :)
Repetitions have always been allowed under Sofia rules, it's a major and obvious flaw.

LawrenceCooper
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Re: European Individual 19th March - 1st April 2012

Post by LawrenceCooper » Thu Mar 29, 2012 9:23 pm

Results of the last round for ENG
Rd. Bo. No. Name Rtg Pts. Result Pts. Name Rtg No.
9 6 60 GM Jones Gawain C B 2635 6 ½ - ½ 6 GM Volokitin Andrei 2695 19
9 85 82 GM Howell David W L 2614 4 1 - 0 4 IM Pancevski Filip 2470 193
9 88 198 IM Hunt Adam C 2454 4 ½ - ½ 4 GM Kotronias Vasilios 2597 99
9 125 219 IM Ledger Andrew J 2424 3½ 1 - 0 3½ Kourousis Epaminondas 2284 290

Pairings of the next round for ENG
Rd. Bo. No. Name Rtg Pts. Result Pts. Name Rtg No.
10 11 60 GM Jones Gawain C B 2635 6½ 6½ GM Bologan Viktor 2687 24
10 58 145 GM Cornette Matthieu 2545 5 5 GM Howell David W L 2614 82
10 84 112 GM Banusz Tamas 2583 4½ 4½ IM Hunt Adam C 2454 198
10 89 143 GM Fedoseev Vladimir 2548 4½ 4½ IM Ledger Andrew J 2424 219

IngridLauterbach
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Re: European Individual 19th March - 1st April 2012

Post by IngridLauterbach » Fri Mar 30, 2012 7:33 am

LawrenceCooper wrote:
Richard Bates wrote:
With reference to the quick draw on board 1 though, now that the precedent has been set it would be amusing if several of the top boards tomorrow concluded after exactly the same sequence of moves :)
Repetitions have always been allowed under Sofia rules, it's a major and obvious flaw.

According to http://susanpolgar.blogspot.de the game Baron-Safarli was also a threefold repetition, nevertheless it was counted 0:0 because they did not ask the arbiters (whereas board 1 did).

LawrenceCooper
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Re: European Individual 19th March - 1st April 2012

Post by LawrenceCooper » Fri Mar 30, 2012 8:32 am

IngridLauterbach wrote:
LawrenceCooper wrote:
Richard Bates wrote:
With reference to the quick draw on board 1 though, now that the precedent has been set it would be amusing if several of the top boards tomorrow concluded after exactly the same sequence of moves :)
Repetitions have always been allowed under Sofia rules, it's a major and obvious flaw.

According to http://susanpolgar.blogspot.de the game Baron-Safarli was also a threefold repetition, nevertheless it was counted 0:0 because they did not ask the arbiters (whereas board 1 did).
Another link here: http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=8037

As far as I'm aware no one has yet been penalised under the ECU dress code rules. I was slightly bemused when I contacted the organisers regarding David's missing luggage at the start of the tournament to be told not to worry and that the arbiters were to be instructed not to penalise David if he infringed the dress code :shock:

Thankfully the luggage appeared on the third day.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: European Individual 19th March - 1st April 2012

Post by Roger de Coverly » Fri Mar 30, 2012 11:58 am

IngridLauterbach wrote: According to http://susanpolgar.blogspot.de the game Baron-Safarli was also a threefold repetition, nevertheless it was counted 0:0 because they did not ask the arbiters (whereas board 1 did).
It seems to be a new interpretation that repetition of position is only allowed under Sofia rules when the arbiter comes to validate it. Cue a player protest with plausible but incorrect claims to keep arbiters awake, or take them away from their takeaways.

Gibraltar has a variant on Sofia, how do they handle repetition there?

LawrenceCooper
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Re: European Individual 19th March - 1st April 2012

Post by LawrenceCooper » Fri Mar 30, 2012 5:41 pm

Results of the last round for ENG
Rd. Bo. No. Name Rtg Pts. Result Pts. Name Rtg No.
10 11 60 GM Jones Gawain C B 2635 6½ 0 - 1 6½ GM Bologan Viktor 2687 24
10 58 145 GM Cornette Matthieu 2545 5 0 - 1 5 GM Howell David W L 2614 82
10 84 112 GM Banusz Tamas 2583 4½ 1 - 0 4½ IM Hunt Adam C 2454 198
10 89 143 GM Fedoseev Vladimir 2548 4½ 1 - 0 4½ IM Ledger Andrew J 2424 219

LawrenceCooper
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Re: European Individual 19th March - 1st April 2012

Post by LawrenceCooper » Fri Mar 30, 2012 7:23 pm

Pairings of the next round for ENG
Rd. Bo. No. Name Rtg Pts. Result Pts. Name Rtg No.
11 25 117 GM Ernst Sipke 2578 6½ 6½ GM Jones Gawain C B 2635 60
11 45 82 GM Howell David W L 2614 6 6 GM Djukic Nikola 2513 167
11 115 198 IM Hunt Adam C 2454 4½ 4½ FM Balla Tamas-Kristof 2369 254
11 120 219 IM Ledger Andrew J 2424 4½ 4½ IM Dragomirescu Robin-Alexandru 2358 260

The last round starts at 11am English time.

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