REGULATIONS ON REGISTRATION & LICENSING OF PLAYERS

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IM Jack Rudd
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Re: REGULATIONS ON REGISTRATION & LICENSING OF PLAYERS

Post by IM Jack Rudd » Tue Jan 29, 2013 11:04 am

The ECF is taking this situation very seriously and there is plenty of discussion behind the scenes as to how best to proceed. I will not comment further at this time.

Jonathan Rogers
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Re: REGULATIONS ON REGISTRATION & LICENSING OF PLAYERS

Post by Jonathan Rogers » Tue Jan 29, 2013 11:05 am

Roger de Coverly wrote:
Greg Breed wrote:I for one do not want my passport number being handed over to FIDE. I'm only playing chess for crying out loud!
Maybe there is behind the scenes activity, but on the face of it the new regulations would require many entrants to events at the British Championships, next season's 4NCL, e2e4 and other events with internationally rated sections taking place after 1st July 2013 to have to provide their passport details and a photograph to the ECF to pass on to FIDE.

None of the affected bodies, or even the chess news sites like chessbase have yet commented.
Mike Truran did alert 4NCl captains to the item, but it elicited remarkably little feedback. It is astonishing that Chessbase has nothing on it. I can only speculate that most people think "FIDE are always threatening to do mad things and then backing down at the last minute and this will obviously go the same way" but it is a dangerous mindset.

To be fair to the ECF, their FIDE delegate is currently trying to win Gibraltar again. If they cobble together a statement by next week, that will be a reasonable performance.

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Greg Breed
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Re: REGULATIONS ON REGISTRATION & LICENSING OF PLAYERS

Post by Greg Breed » Tue Jan 29, 2013 12:35 pm

I don't understand why they even want such details. Has anyone ever in the history of chess pretended to be someone else?
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Roger de Coverly
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Re: REGULATIONS ON REGISTRATION & LICENSING OF PLAYERS

Post by Roger de Coverly » Tue Jan 29, 2013 12:54 pm

Bob Clark wrote: I guess a lot of captains probably concluded that this new proposal was clearly unacceptable, and if it was enforced then that would be an end to FIDE rated chess in this country.
It's called registration and licensing rather than membership and asks for more information, but to what extent does FIDE's proposal differ from the ECF's Gold membership requirement other than in degree? Increased financial penalties to non compliant organisers is possibly one.

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Greg Breed
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Re: REGULATIONS ON REGISTRATION & LICENSING OF PLAYERS

Post by Greg Breed » Tue Jan 29, 2013 1:13 pm

Roger de Coverly wrote:
Bob Clark wrote: I guess a lot of captains probably concluded that this new proposal was clearly unacceptable, and if it was enforced then that would be an end to FIDE rated chess in this country.
It's called registration and licensing rather than membership and asks for more information, but to what extent does FIDE's proposal differ from the ECF's Gold membership requirement other than in degree? Increased financial penalties to non compliant organisers is possibly one.
But why do they need my passport number? With the amount of identity fraud and the utter incompetence of companies (and governments) to safely store private data in this online world I cannot see why the world governing body of chess needs my passport number to play a rated game.

If they do pursue it I and many others will seriously consider bothering to play FIDE rated chess (having only recently started). And the impact of this?
4NCL = dead
FIDE tournaments = dead
ECF Gold/Platinum membership = pointless :!:
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Re: REGULATIONS ON REGISTRATION & LICENSING OF PLAYERS

Post by Roger de Coverly » Tue Jan 29, 2013 2:21 pm

Greg Breed wrote: But why do they need my passport number?
That's for FIDE and FIDE apologists to explain. I think an earlier draft wanted place of birth as well. They already ask for date of birth. I might presume some half baked idea to combat rating identity fraud, or is some idea to do with Money Laundering?

In its way, it's not such a daft idea to ask players new to internationally rated chess to confirm their details before they play their first game. It's a "nice to have" and if the implementation discouraged tournament entry or participation in leagues, the convenience of FIDE and national rating administrators isn't sufficient reason.

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Re: REGULATIONS ON REGISTRATION & LICENSING OF PLAYERS

Post by Matthew Turner » Tue Jan 29, 2013 3:06 pm

Bob Clark wrote:
Jonathan Rogers wrote: Mike Truran did alert 4NCl captains to the item, but it elicited remarkably little feedback. It is astonishing that Chessbase has nothing on it. I can only speculate that most people think "FIDE are always threatening to do mad things and then backing down at the last minute and this will obviously go the same way" but it is a dangerous mindset.

To be fair to the ECF, their FIDE delegate is currently trying to win Gibraltar again. If they cobble together a statement by next week, that will be a reasonable performance.
I think Mike's final comment which I believe was along the lines of "There is no way that FIDE is having details of my Passport" summed it up rather nicely.
I guess a lot of captains probably concluded that this new proposal was clearly unacceptable, and if it was enforced then that would be an end to FIDE rated chess in this country.
But Mike '30 votes' Truran has pioneered the ECF's own membership scheme that requires players to give their bank accounts details to a failed holiday company which appears to be headquartered in a field. I think there is a bit of hypocrisy there.

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Re: REGULATIONS ON REGISTRATION & LICENSING OF PLAYERS

Post by Jonathan Rogers » Tue Jan 29, 2013 3:59 pm

Bob Clark wrote:
Matthew Turner wrote:
Bob Clark wrote:
I think Mike's final comment which I believe was along the lines of "There is no way that FIDE is having details of my Passport" summed it up rather nicely.
I guess a lot of captains probably concluded that this new proposal was clearly unacceptable, and if it was enforced then that would be an end to FIDE rated chess in this country.
But Mike '30 votes' Truran has pioneered the ECF's own membership scheme that requires players to give their bank accounts details to a failed holiday company which appears to be headquartered in a field. I think there is a bit of hypocrisy there.
im not sure how you paid for your membership
There is a short and simple answer to that! 8)
Bob Clark wrote: but most of us wouldnt dream of giving our Bank Account details to the ECF
In fact, I remember they wouldn't accept payment (by debit card) for membership over the phone, which I found rather inconvenient.

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Re: REGULATIONS ON REGISTRATION & LICENSING OF PLAYERS

Post by Jonathan Rogers » Tue Jan 29, 2013 4:37 pm

Not that it matters but what do people mean when they refer to giving their bank details anyway? As Sean once pointed out in this forum, quite a lot of details are given out on an ordinary cheque!

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Re: REGULATIONS ON REGISTRATION & LICENSING OF PLAYERS

Post by Matthew Turner » Tue Jan 29, 2013 4:51 pm

Jonathan Rogers wrote:
I think Mike's final comment which I believe was along the lines of "There is no way that FIDE is having details of my Passport" summed it up rather nicely.
I guess a lot of captains probably concluded that this new proposal was clearly unacceptable, and if it was enforced then that would be an end to FIDE rated chess in this country.

But Mike '30 votes' Truran has pioneered the ECF's own membership scheme that requires players to give their bank accounts details to a failed holiday company which appears to be headquartered in a field. I think there is a bit of hypocrisy there.

im not sure how you paid for your membership

There is a short and simple answer to that! 8)


Unfortunately there isn't. Given I work at a School where some of the students don't have credit cards I am required by the ECF to give my credit card details to a failed holiday company which appears to be headquartered in a field.

Bob Clark wrote "No doubt Matthew will explain how Scotland collect their membership dues."

I join Chess Scotland online via paypal and it has never been a problem.

John Philpott

Re: REGULATIONS ON REGISTRATION & LICENSING OF PLAYERS

Post by John Philpott » Tue Jan 29, 2013 6:05 pm

Matthew Turner wrote
Unfortunately there isn't. Given I work at a School where some of the students don't have credit cards I am required by the ECF to give my credit card details to a failed holiday company which appears to be headquartered in a field.

Bob Clark wrote "No doubt Matthew will explain how Scotland collect their membership dues."

I join Chess Scotland online via paypal and it has never been a problem.
I will confine myself to the following two observations.

(a) We have at least moved on from the false allegation made earlier in the afternoon that members are required to provide their bank account details.

(b) The majority of subscriptions come in via PaySubsOnline. I have just input my wife's details to make sure that I have first hand familiarity with the process. When I reach the payment screen I am provided with the option to log in and pay through my Paypal account.

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Re: REGULATIONS ON REGISTRATION & LICENSING OF PLAYERS

Post by Matthew Turner » Tue Jan 29, 2013 6:09 pm

John,
Perhaps you could also confirm Paysubsonline past history and where they are based

https://www.paysubsonline.com/contact_us.aspx

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Re: REGULATIONS ON REGISTRATION & LICENSING OF PLAYERS

Post by Roger de Coverly » Tue Jan 29, 2013 7:25 pm

John Philpott wrote:When I reach the payment screen I am provided with the option to log in and pay through my Paypal account.
The ECF or paysubsonline don't have details of your clearing bank account, unless you send them a cheque, but they do have details of your Paypal account. Such details may be worth having, as I get spam inviting me to log in to remove suspension of my account.

We don't know whether FIDE will back down, but if they don't what are the outcomes? Perhaps a rapid reversal of the growth of FIDE rated events, so they are cut back to purely those offering potential Norm chances. So just the 4NCL division 1, only the British Championship at the annual Congress, Hastings and the FIDE Open Classic if divided into A rated and B unrated plus any special invitational events.

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Re: REGULATIONS ON REGISTRATION & LICENSING OF PLAYERS

Post by Richard Bates » Tue Jan 29, 2013 7:41 pm

Roger de Coverly wrote:
John Philpott wrote:When I reach the payment screen I am provided with the option to log in and pay through my Paypal account.
The ECF or paysubsonline don't have details of your clearing bank account, unless you send them a cheque, but they do have details of your Paypal account. Such details may be worth having, as I get spam inviting me to log in to remove suspension of my account.

We don't know whether FIDE will back down, but if they don't what are the outcomes? Perhaps a rapid reversal of the growth of FIDE rated events, so they are cut back to purely those offering potential Norm chances. So just the 4NCL division 1, only the British Championship at the annual Congress, Hastings and the FIDE Open Classic if divided into A rated and B unrated plus any special invitational events.
And we resurrect the idea of selling our grading system to the World ;) Shame it's been a bit screwed up recently.

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Re: REGULATIONS ON REGISTRATION & LICENSING OF PLAYERS

Post by Angus French » Tue Jan 29, 2013 7:49 pm

Roger de Coverly wrote:
John Philpott wrote:When I reach the payment screen I am provided with the option to log in and pay through my Paypal account.
The ECF or paysubsonline don't have details of your clearing bank account, unless you send them a cheque, but they do have details of your Paypal account. Such details may be worth having, as I get spam inviting me to log in to remove suspension of my account.
If an ECF membership is acquired online (rather than through the ECF Office), I'm pretty sure that:
1. The associated payment will be made through PayPal - there is no other way;
2. The payment could made be using a PayPal account but equally it could be made through the provision of debit or credit card details (such information is encrypted before it's transferred across the Internet);
3. No details of how the payment was made will be passed to Paysubsonline. It's none of their business - they only need know whether the payment transaction was successful or not;
4. No PayPal account information will be passed to Paysubsonline. Again, it's none of their business.

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