REGULATIONS ON REGISTRATION & LICENSING OF PLAYERS

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Ian Thompson
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Re: REGULATIONS ON REGISTRATION & LICENSING OF PLAYERS

Post by Ian Thompson » Tue Jan 29, 2013 8:05 pm

Greg Breed wrote:I don't understand why they even want such details. Has anyone ever in the history of chess pretended to be someone else?
Yes.

A male player entered the British Ladies correspondence chess championship some years ago (and won it before being found out).

One of the early cases of suspected computer cheating was resolved because the player had entered under a false name. The organisers suspected cheating, but couldn't prove it. He was beating IMs and GMs but couldn't give the first few moves of openings such as the Sicilian Defence. They disqualified him because he couldn't prove that he was who he said he was.

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Re: REGULATIONS ON REGISTRATION & LICENSING OF PLAYERS

Post by Jonathan Rogers » Tue Jan 29, 2013 8:15 pm

There are probably a number of such examples but overall still so few that this remains a sledgehammer v nut solution.

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Greg Breed
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Re: REGULATIONS ON REGISTRATION & LICENSING OF PLAYERS

Post by Greg Breed » Wed Jan 30, 2013 6:29 pm

Jonathan Rogers wrote:There are probably a number of such examples but overall still so few that this remains a sledgehammer v nut solution.
Agreed. Wants and Needs are different. In my opinion FIDE want our passport numbers but don't need them. I can't see how they are going to manage it anyway. It's not particularly relevant for the likes of Sean's e2-e4 tournaments (for example). As is being discussed in another of his threads, a lot of people entering such tournaments do so for the love of the game. Pretending to be someone else merely means you gain nothing but can perhaps lose everything.
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Roger de Coverly
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Re: REGULATIONS ON REGISTRATION & LICENSING OF PLAYERS

Post by Roger de Coverly » Fri Feb 01, 2013 2:08 am

There appears to have been total silence on this issue from Federations or the usual online news sites. Even a blogger always keen to mock the ECF or FIDE hasn't commented.

An Australian/ PNG blogger, sometime attendee of FIDE meetings and occasional commentator on this forum breaks the silence.

http://chesslaw.blogspot.com.au/2013/01 ... de-qc.html

(edit) The Australian (official) forum also comments. It also includes the opinion of the most influential US organiser which is that he will remove his US events from international rating.

http://www.chesschat.org/showthread.php?t=14470

(/edit)

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Greg Breed
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Re: REGULATIONS ON REGISTRATION & LICENSING OF PLAYERS

Post by Greg Breed » Fri Feb 01, 2013 9:07 am

Roger de Coverly wrote:There appears to have been total silence on this issue from Federations or the usual online news sites. Even a blogger always keen to mock the ECF or FIDE hasn't commented.

An Australian/ PNG blogger, sometime attendee of FIDE meetings and occasional commentator on this forum breaks the silence.

http://chesslaw.blogspot.com.au/2013/01 ... de-qc.html

(edit) The Australian (official) forum also comments. It also includes the opinion of the most influential US organiser which is that he will remove his US events from international rating.

http://www.chesschat.org/showthread.php?t=14470

(/edit)
The ECF will need to publish their stance. It's a hammer blow to titled players or those striving to achieve one as they don't really have many options. For the rest of us amateur players who play a lot of chess including FIDE events, the need for Gold membership (at least in my case) has just been removed! If they go ahead with this i will cease playing any FIDE events and reduce my membership to Silver if i want to play congresses or Bronze if not!

If my feelings are indicative of the many then the ECF will lose some serious money as a result next season!
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Roger de Coverly
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Re: REGULATIONS ON REGISTRATION & LICENSING OF PLAYERS

Post by Roger de Coverly » Fri Feb 01, 2013 11:02 am

Greg Breed wrote: The ECF will need to publish their stance.
They will indeed. The problem they face is that the proposals in principle if not in detail are only the same as they adopt themselves or have adopted in the past.

The ECF used to have a rule that every player in a FIDE rated tournament had to be a member of a national Federation. One prominent organiser pointed out that he could not be expected to check individual membership schemes of foreign federations and this was impossible if they didn't have such a scheme. The ECF eventually backed down, but not so far that it was prepared to introduce a "pay to play" approach for newcomers to FIDE rated chess. Instead it rather vindictively removed the ratings of players taking part in FIDE rated events who were not ECF members.

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Re: REGULATIONS ON REGISTRATION & LICENSING OF PLAYERS

Post by Sean Hewitt » Fri Feb 01, 2013 12:15 pm

Roger de Coverly wrote:The ECF used to have a rule that every player in a FIDE rated tournament had to be a member of a national Federation. One prominent organiser pointed out that he could not be expected to check individual membership schemes of foreign federations and this was impossible if they didn't have such a scheme. The ECF eventually backed down
Indeed :D
Roger de Coverly wrote:Instead it rather vindictively removed the ratings of players taking part in FIDE rated events who were not ECF members.
To be fair to the ECF, they stopped doing something that they should not do when it was pointed out to them by me. Or at least, they did eventually! They then decided to apply their own, and FIDE's rules, correctly. Some don't like the rule, which is a perfectly reasonable view, but it is a FIDE requirement that you have to be a member of your national federation (if the federation has a membership scheme) to appear in the FIDE rating list.
FIDE handbook wrote:13.1 To be included in the FRL or FIDE Rapidplay Rating list, a player must be a member of a national chess Federation which is a member of FIDE. That is, the Federation must not be temporarily or permanently excluded from membership.
13.2 It is the responsibility of national Federations to inform FIDE if players should not be included in the FRL, FRRL.
13.3 Any player excluded from either rating list because he is unable to obtain membership of a national Federation, may apply to FIDE for special dispensation to be included.
Even I wouldn't criticise the ECF for applying the rules correctly. :lol:

On the substantive point; I'm still going to wait to see how this all pans out. I seriously doubt that any of this will happen, certainly not in the way currently outlined. I could be wrong of course, but I hope not.

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Re: REGULATIONS ON REGISTRATION & LICENSING OF PLAYERS

Post by Roger de Coverly » Fri Feb 01, 2013 12:54 pm

Sean Hewitt wrote: but it is a FIDE requirement that you have to be a member of your national federation (if the federation has a membership scheme) to appear in the FIDE rating list.
Actually that's disputed.

Chess Scotland specifically asked this question. They have a membership scheme but not a compulsory one. They asked if they needed to insist on membership as a condition of play to have their national league rated. The FIDE answer of a couple of years ago was that they didn't, membership being interpreted in the loose sense of listed with. FIDE being a federation of chess bodies doesn't offer individual membership unlike the ECF, also a federation of chess bodies. So when a Federation is suspended from FIDE for non payment, individual players from that Federation temporarily lose their ratings and cannot rectify the matter by joining FIDE as individuals.

Isn't the FIDE Registration scheme another attempt to get those federations like Scotland or Australia who don't have mandatory individual membership, to introduce it?

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Re: REGULATIONS ON REGISTRATION & LICENSING OF PLAYERS

Post by Sean Hewitt » Fri Feb 01, 2013 3:00 pm

Roger de Coverly wrote:Isn't the FIDE Registration scheme another attempt to get those federations like Scotland or Australia who don't have mandatory individual membership, to introduce it?
I don't know. Perhaps Nick Faulks can answer that?

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Re: REGULATIONS ON REGISTRATION & LICENSING OF PLAYERS

Post by Alex McFarlane » Thu Feb 07, 2013 10:57 am


Leonard Barden
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Re: REGULATIONS ON REGISTRATION & LICENSING OF PLAYERS

Post by Leonard Barden » Thu Feb 07, 2013 11:23 am

Why is the ECF not among the list of signatories?

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Re: REGULATIONS ON REGISTRATION & LICENSING OF PLAYERS

Post by Alex McFarlane » Thu Feb 07, 2013 11:34 am

This may be an early version. I've been told Scotland have signed but are not mentioned. There are apparently now 17 or 18 signatories. (This I discovered only after posting.)

I think the ECF Board may have a meeting this weekend, so they may have decided to wait for that.

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Re: REGULATIONS ON REGISTRATION & LICENSING OF PLAYERS

Post by Roger de Coverly » Thu Feb 07, 2013 11:42 am

Leonard Barden wrote:Why is the ECF not among the list of signatories?
The last time the ECF signed an open letter to FIDE, they ended up in an action at the Court of Arbitration in Sport. This could, I suppose, go the same way, if FIDE don't back down and proceed to remove the ratings of players and refuse to rate events from non cooperating Federations.

Chess Scotland haven't signed either. For all we know, both they and the ECF support FIDE's measure. In my view, it's different in degree but not in principle from the ECF demanding Gold membership from ENG players as a pre-condition of playing in standard play rated events and for that matter demanding Gold membership as a pre-condition of remaining on the FIDE rating list when playing exclusively outside England.

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Re: REGULATIONS ON REGISTRATION & LICENSING OF PLAYERS

Post by Sean Hewitt ECF DoMM » Mon Feb 11, 2013 3:11 pm

I've just had an email from FIDE
11 February 2013 14:49, Directory Elista FIDE Office wrote:

Dear friends,

The licensing of the players has been cancelled. The new documents
about registration will be presented in due course.

_____
FIDE Secretariat

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Re: REGULATIONS ON REGISTRATION & LICENSING OF PLAYERS

Post by Roger de Coverly » Wed Feb 20, 2013 9:24 pm

chessvibes now reports

http://www.chessvibes.com/reports/fide- ... erstanding

I would have thought this a "climb down" rather than a "misunderstanding".

A central objective is still present, namely to require tournament organisers to pre-register new players with FIDE through the national Chess Federation. At least one major US organiser considers this totally impractical, but at the very least charging organisers or players an additional upfront charge for failing to register in advance of their very first tournament is likely to lead to a reduction in both the number of new players and the number of organisers willing to run FIDE rated events.

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