REGULATIONS ON REGISTRATION & LICENSING OF PLAYERS

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Roger de Coverly
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Re: REGULATIONS ON REGISTRATION & LICENSING OF PLAYERS

Post by Roger de Coverly » Wed May 15, 2013 3:51 pm

The Regulations are back.

http://www.fide.com/images/stories/NEWS ... layers.pdf

They've been watered down, but they still think that it should be a condition of entering your first FIDE rated tournament or playing your first 4NCL game, that you provide the ECF and FIDE with your place of birth and email address.
NCF will register the Player with FIDE by providing information containing the Player’s Name, Gender, Place & Date of Birth, Citizenship and Contact e-mail.
Will the ECF express opinions for or against this proposal?

Alex McFarlane
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Re: REGULATIONS ON REGISTRATION & LICENSING OF PLAYERS

Post by Alex McFarlane » Wed May 15, 2013 4:13 pm

A very much watered down version of the previous proposals. The timescale for implementation might be awkward for some events with foreign players.

There is a fee of €25 to re-register a deleted player. How will the ECF deal with that?

I have also wondered for some time how FIDE will cope with the ECF request to 'hide' the standard rating for Silver members but to leave their rapidplay and blitz ratings visible.

Hopefully the new DoMM will have brought a wisdom which wasn't always evident in the past.

Sean Hewitt
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Re: REGULATIONS ON REGISTRATION & LICENSING OF PLAYERS

Post by Sean Hewitt » Wed May 15, 2013 4:20 pm

Alex McFarlane wrote:There is a fee of €25 to re-register a deleted player. How will the ECF deal with that?
How will Chess Scotland deal with that?
Alex McFarlane wrote:I have also wondered for some time how FIDE will cope with the ECF request to 'hide' the standard rating for Silver members but to leave their rapidplay and blitz ratings visible.
Have the ECF ever done this? :oops:

Sean Hewitt
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Re: REGULATIONS ON REGISTRATION & LICENSING OF PLAYERS

Post by Sean Hewitt » Wed May 15, 2013 4:21 pm

Roger de Coverly wrote:The Regulations are back.

http://www.fide.com/images/stories/NEWS ... layers.pdf

They've been watered down, but they still think that it should be a condition of entering your first FIDE rated tournament or playing your first 4NCL game, that you provide the ECF and FIDE with your place of birth and email address.
NCF will register the Player with FIDE by providing information containing the Player’s Name, Gender, Place & Date of Birth, Citizenship and Contact e-mail.
Will the ECF express opinions for or against this proposal?
I am sure that the ECF will express an opinion when the matter is discussed, no doubt at the next Board Meeting.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: REGULATIONS ON REGISTRATION & LICENSING OF PLAYERS

Post by Roger de Coverly » Wed May 15, 2013 4:25 pm

Alex McFarlane wrote: Hopefully the new DoMM will have brought a wisdom which wasn't always evident in the past.
Demanding £ 27 a year to enable someone living outside of England and not taking part in any English events to retain a FIDE rating as ENG was always vindictive and reflected badly on those who made and implemented the decision. The ECF can avoid payments for re-listing of players by not removing them in the first place. Alternatively it could follow FIDE and issue licences to players with reinstatement fees should the ECF have cause to remove a player's licence.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: REGULATIONS ON REGISTRATION & LICENSING OF PLAYERS

Post by Roger de Coverly » Wed May 15, 2013 4:30 pm

Sean Hewitt wrote:How will Chess Scotland deal with that?
As I think you are aware, Chess Scotland finance themselves from rating fees and voluntary membership. I wouldn't think the issue of reinstatement would ever arise unless they expelled someone for misconduct.
Sean Hewitt wrote: Have the ECF ever done this?
What is the ECF's current policy? If someone plays outside of ENG, but in a FIDE rated event and isn't any sort of member, what is supposed to happen? If the ECF ask FIDE to make it look as if the player has been suspended, does that also apply to Bronze and Silver categories of member?

Sean Hewitt
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Re: REGULATIONS ON REGISTRATION & LICENSING OF PLAYERS

Post by Sean Hewitt » Wed May 15, 2013 4:37 pm

Roger de Coverly wrote:What is the ECF's current policy? If someone plays outside of ENG, but in a FIDE rated event and isn't any sort of member, what is supposed to happen? If the ECF ask FIDE to make it look as if the player has been suspended, does that also apply to Bronze and Silver categories of member?
I think the current policy is articulated on the ECF website. Any questions might be best directed at the DoMM.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: REGULATIONS ON REGISTRATION & LICENSING OF PLAYERS

Post by Roger de Coverly » Wed May 15, 2013 4:53 pm

Sean Hewitt wrote:I think the current policy is articulated on the ECF website.
I found this http://www.englishchess.org.uk/membership/about/

which states
Only Gold or Platinum members will be registered for English for FIDE rating purposes.
That has to be incorrect for any players only taking part in Rapid or Blitz events.

Under http://www.englishchess.org.uk/whats-changing/, I found
In FIDE-rated events, the ECF requires that players not registered with another country must be Gold or Platinum members. In the event of any exceptions, the organisers will be charged the FIDE rating fee payable and the player concerned will be de-registered on the FIDE rating list.
Again that's incorrect if the term "FIDE-rated" includes Rapid and Blitz.

Elsewhere the old confusion of membership with registration persists. For example
The ECF will only submit a game for FIDE rating if both players of the game are members of a national federation.
would exclude from rating any player from a Federation that didn't have an individual membership structure. France for example. The players are members of clubs, clubs are members of the FFE and club members have to pay for a Licence to Play Chess to be allowed to play in leagues and tournaments.

PeterFarr
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Re: REGULATIONS ON REGISTRATION & LICENSING OF PLAYERS

Post by PeterFarr » Wed May 15, 2013 5:29 pm

Sean Hewitt wrote:I think the current policy is articulated on the ECF website. Any questions might be best directed at the DoMM.
Am I wrong in detecting a sense of ironic enjoyment in this sentence?
Roger de Coverly wrote:
I found this http://www.englishchess.org.uk/membership/about/

which states
Only Gold or Platinum members will be registered for English for FIDE rating purposes.
That has to be incorrect for any players only taking part in Rapid or Blitz events.

Under http://www.englishchess.org.uk/whats-changing/, I found
In FIDE-rated events, the ECF requires that players not registered with another country must be Gold or Platinum members. In the event of any exceptions, the organisers will be charged the FIDE rating fee payable and the player concerned will be de-registered on the FIDE rating list.
Again that's incorrect if the term "FIDE-rated" includes Rapid and Blitz.

Elsewhere the old confusion of membership with registration persists. For example
The ECF will only submit a game for FIDE rating if both players of the game are members of a national federation.
would exclude from rating any player from a Federation that didn't have an individual membership structure. France for example. The players are members of clubs, clubs are members of the FFE and club members have to pay for a Licence to Play Chess to be allowed to play in leagues and tournaments.
Surely then if a French player is a member of a French club, they would be treated as if they are a member of their Federation? Is it really that complicated or am I missing something?

Given that the new DoMM is only 2 days into the role and may have some other priorities with which to entertain him, what do you think the ECF policy / rules actually should be here (taking as a given the existence of the current membership structure)? And does it potentially impact a large number of players or just a few - i.e. how much does it matter?

Roger de Coverly
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Re: REGULATIONS ON REGISTRATION & LICENSING OF PLAYERS

Post by Roger de Coverly » Wed May 15, 2013 5:49 pm

PeterFarr wrote: Surely then if a French player is a member of a French club, they would be treated as if they are a member of their Federation? Is it really that complicated or am I missing something?
You aren't, but this goes back to a piece of misrepresentation by the ECF and BCF before it. The misrepresentation was that the FIDE rules on rating meant that the ECF could no longer finance itself by applying a levy to organisers and that individual membership was needed for participants in FIDE rated events. Furthermore when the ECF was founded, the word member was interpreted to mean member in the sense of member of the company, in other words a shareholder or in the ECF's context a Guarantor.

It was Sean, who as a Congress Organiser, did much to chop away at the misrepresentation by noting that whilst he could check the membership status of English players, was he really expected to check the status of players from all round the world, some from Federations who didn't run personal membership schemes? Under FIDE's draft proposal, organisers still won't have to do this, but they will be required to ensure that all players are listed on the FIDE website under a national federation, or at a cost under FIDE itself before sending in the rating reports.

You can look up a player as FRA on the FIDE website. It doesn't tell you whether they have a French licence unless you go to the FFE site as well.

PeterFarr
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Re: REGULATIONS ON REGISTRATION & LICENSING OF PLAYERS

Post by PeterFarr » Wed May 15, 2013 5:56 pm

OK, thanks I get that, but what then should the ECF do now to get a sensible rule that is practical for tournament organizers and fair for players? (as I say, assuming the membership scheme as a given).

Roger de Coverly
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Re: REGULATIONS ON REGISTRATION & LICENSING OF PLAYERS

Post by Roger de Coverly » Wed May 15, 2013 6:14 pm

PeterFarr wrote:OK, thanks I get that, but what then should the ECF do now to get a sensible rule that is practical for tournament organizers and fair for players? (as I say, assuming the membership scheme as a given).
It should minimise its enforcement to tournaments which it rates itself. If it wants to bar events from being rated because they contain non-members or surcharge organisers, that's within its power. If there are players who are non-members who don't play in England, it should just ignore them. It's plain stupid to incur the costs of de-listing for the sake of a cost saving of 1 Euro a year in the ECF's FIDE membership cost. FIDE gets income from National Federations at a rate of 1 Euro per active rated player (capped at, I think, 1500 Euros) plus rating fees per tournament.

PeterFarr
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Re: REGULATIONS ON REGISTRATION & LICENSING OF PLAYERS

Post by PeterFarr » Wed May 15, 2013 6:49 pm

Thanks again; without knowing the details, it was the de-listing thing that most puzzled me. Certainly doesn't sound great on the face of it, absent of a killer counter-argument that's not immediately apparent.

Sean Hewitt
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Re: REGULATIONS ON REGISTRATION & LICENSING OF PLAYERS

Post by Sean Hewitt » Wed May 15, 2013 7:08 pm

PeterFarr wrote:Thanks again; without knowing the details, it was the de-listing thing that most puzzled me. Certainly doesn't sound great on the face of it, absent of a killer counter-argument that's not immediately apparent.
Peter - The ECF requires ENG players in FIDE rated events to be Gold ECF members. If non Gold members play in a FIDE rated event then they have their FIDE rating deactivated until they rejoin.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: REGULATIONS ON REGISTRATION & LICENSING OF PLAYERS

Post by Roger de Coverly » Wed May 15, 2013 7:15 pm

PeterFarr wrote:Certainly doesn't sound great on the face of it, absent of a killer counter-argument that's not immediately apparent.
The idea was to punish players who refused to become ECF members.
(edit) As confirmed by Sean (/edit)



Here's an old thread.
http://www.ecforum.org.uk/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=3142

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