European Championship - Team ENGLAND

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David Robertson
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European Championship - Team ENGLAND

Post by David Robertson » Thu Oct 03, 2013 5:03 pm

1) Adams
2) McShane
3) Short
4) Jones
5) Howell

Confirmation due soon.

Good news :)

Jonathan Rogers
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Re: European Championship - Team ENGLAND

Post by Jonathan Rogers » Thu Oct 03, 2013 6:12 pm

meanwhile the womens' team is still being written on the backs of various envelopes, following the refusal to pay for a coach for them? :(

John Upham
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Re: European Championship - Team ENGLAND

Post by John Upham » Thu Oct 03, 2013 8:40 pm

In another place I noted the disdain of a young IM that members of the England team at the World Youth Championships were having to "pay for coaching".

Is this normal practise or a fresh initiative?
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LawrenceCooper
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Re: European Championship - Team ENGLAND

Post by LawrenceCooper » Thu Oct 03, 2013 8:55 pm

John Upham wrote:In another place I noted the disdain of a young IM that members of the England team at the World Youth Championships were having to "pay for coaching".

Is this normal practise or a fresh initiative?
Normal practice.

Jonathan Rogers
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Re: European Championship - Team ENGLAND

Post by Jonathan Rogers » Thu Oct 03, 2013 9:26 pm

LawrenceCooper wrote:
John Upham wrote:In another place I noted the disdain of a young IM that members of the England team at the World Youth Championships were having to "pay for coaching".

Is this normal practise or a fresh initiative?
Normal practice.

Normal practice where? including the countries which one might hope that English teams would rival?

And normal practice for whom? Even in England the men's team have a coach - and I bet they don't pay for him.

LawrenceCooper
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Re: European Championship - Team ENGLAND

Post by LawrenceCooper » Thu Oct 03, 2013 10:05 pm

Jonathan Rogers wrote:
LawrenceCooper wrote:
John Upham wrote:In another place I noted the disdain of a young IM that members of the England team at the World Youth Championships were having to "pay for coaching".

Is this normal practise or a fresh initiative?
Normal practice.

Normal practice where? including the countries which one might hope that English teams would rival?

And normal practice for whom? Even in England the men's team have a coach - and I bet they don't pay for him.
I was refering to the World Youth. The parents have always paid for coaching.

David Robertson
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Re: European Championship - Team ENGLAND

Post by David Robertson » Thu Oct 03, 2013 10:54 pm

They pay £30,000/year for their schooling. How absolutely outrageous their coaching can't be paid from collective funds.

Richard Bates
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Re: European Championship - Team ENGLAND

Post by Richard Bates » Fri Oct 04, 2013 12:30 am

LawrenceCooper wrote:
I was refering to the World Youth. The parents have always paid for coaching.
Is this definitely true? Not saying it isn't, i don't know exactly what my parents used to have to pay for, but whilst it seems pretty obvious that there is no alternative under current Junior selection policy i thought it might of been different in the days of limited selection (and/or external funding - eg. the Norwood money). Certainly there was a point at which the pay for coaches became more attractive and there was actually a significant uptake in coaches wanting to do the job, which logically might have represented a correlation with a point at which a cash strapped BCF no longer picked up the bill. Of course in times past the often sole coach was also the Head of Delegation and would have had much of their expense covered by the organisers.

BTW does everyone pay the same, regardless of who they get, and do the parents have direct influence on coach selection?

LawrenceCooper
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Re: European Championship - Team ENGLAND

Post by LawrenceCooper » Fri Oct 04, 2013 8:12 am

Richard Bates wrote:
LawrenceCooper wrote:
I was refering to the World Youth. The parents have always paid for coaching.
Is this definitely true? Not saying it isn't, i don't know exactly what my parents used to have to pay for, but whilst it seems pretty obvious that there is no alternative under current Junior selection policy i thought it might of been different in the days of limited selection (and/or external funding - eg. the Norwood money). Certainly there was a point at which the pay for coaches became more attractive and there was actually a significant uptake in coaches wanting to do the job, which logically might have represented a correlation with a point at which a cash strapped BCF no longer picked up the bill. Of course in times past the often sole coach was also the Head of Delegation and would have had much of their expense covered by the organisers.

BTW does everyone pay the same, regardless of who they get, and do the parents have direct influence on coach selection?
Perhaps always is the wrong word as I can only vouch for recent years and I've only had direct involvement in organising our participation to the World Junior whilst International Director. My understanding is that parents are asked for their preference in terms of a coach and where possible a match is made and that all pay the same.

Kevin Thurlow
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Re: European Championship - Team ENGLAND

Post by Kevin Thurlow » Fri Oct 04, 2013 8:14 am

I spoke to parents of junior squad members that had played at Guernsey some years ago and the amount they had to pay was at least double what I was paying for better accommodation and the same tournament, so I assumed the overall charge included coaching etc?

David Sedgwick
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Re: European Championship - Team ENGLAND

Post by David Sedgwick » Fri Oct 04, 2013 9:36 am

Kevin Thurlow wrote:I spoke to parents of junior squad members that had played at Guernsey some years ago and the amount they had to pay was at least double what I was paying for better accommodation and the same tournament, so I assumed the overall charge included coaching etc?
I think that group would have been arranged and sent by the National Junior Chess Squad, which is independent of the ECF.

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Paolo Casaschi
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Re: European Championship - Team ENGLAND

Post by Paolo Casaschi » Fri Oct 04, 2013 9:45 am

John Upham wrote:In another place I noted the disdain of a young IM that members of the England team at the World Youth Championships were having to "pay for coaching".

Is this normal practise or a fresh initiative?
As a member of a cash constraint federation that has membership fees as primary source of income I do support the decision of not providing free coaching.

Ken Norman
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Re: European Championship - Team ENGLAND

Post by Ken Norman » Fri Oct 04, 2013 11:34 am

Jonathan Rogers wrote:meanwhile the womens' team is still being written on the backs of various envelopes, following the refusal to pay for a coach for them? :(

Some things never change.

The BCF sent a team of two to the Ladies Olympiad at Lublin in 1969.

The team was Dinah Dobson on board one and Rowena Bruce on board two.

As there was no reserve player they had to play all 15 rounds.

Kevin Thurlow
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Re: European Championship - Team ENGLAND

Post by Kevin Thurlow » Fri Oct 04, 2013 12:16 pm

"I think that group would have been arranged and sent by the National Junior Chess Squad, which is independent of the ECF."

Quite possibly, but they were (I think) claiming official status. It seems a common practice amongst junior organisations!

I'm certainly not blaming anyone for charging for coaching.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: European Championship - Team ENGLAND

Post by Roger de Coverly » Fri Oct 04, 2013 12:32 pm

David Sedgwick wrote: I think that group would have been arranged and sent by the National Junior Chess Squad, which is independent of the ECF.
In its original format when it used the BCF name, it used to assemble teams of juniors to terrorise adult tournaments. This seems to have fallen by the way, so much so that it was a proposal for a new initiative in one of the Junior Director manifestos.

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