Anand v Carlsen

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Geoff Chandler
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Re: Anand v Carlsen

Post by Geoff Chandler » Mon Nov 18, 2013 2:18 pm

I like the gag about Anand getting Carlsen's Rooks off the board.
"You are not doing that to me again!"

------------------------------

"I do not intend to detract from Carlsen's wonderful technique,
but this is very much chess for the connoisseur."

I'm actually enjoying it. Games 5 & 6 coupled with me very recently getting my
hands on an Endgame Book that makes studying this dreary aspect of the game fun.
I've donated a blog to it.

http://www.redhotpawn.com/blog/blogread ... postid=152

And the next blog (in progress) is full of brillo-mungo blunders in Rook Endings.

And it's so quick to set up the bits for studying an endgame.
(this amazing discovery tells you how little I have studied the ending.)
When I set up the bits for a middle game combo from a book I'd look at
the position, count to 10 and set it up from memory.

Thanks to ideas from Alekhine, Tal, Sax, Velmerovic etc...etc...
I have speculative middle game sac down to a fine art.

Now Carlsen (and that book) is showing me tricks that World Champions falls for in the ending.
Suddenly I'm seeing shots (traps/blunders) nearly as quickly as I can see a trap in the middle-game.
Looks like after 62 years I have finally grown up!

I was going suggest Anand try Bxc6 v the Berlin it's what I do.
I gave all the secrets away in:

http://www.redhotpawn.com/blog/blogread ... gpostid=39

(that Blog had 5,500+ hits, Obviously Magnus was one of them).

Mick Norris
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Re: Anand v Carlsen

Post by Mick Norris » Mon Nov 18, 2013 2:25 pm

AustinElliott wrote: though one has to admire Carlsen's endgame mastery
I beleive he has prepared by reading the S&B blog posts, and realises that the production of endings for blogging purposes is paramount :lol:
Any postings on here represent my personal views and should not be taken as representative of the Manchester Chess Federation www.manchesterchess.co.uk

MartinCarpenter
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Re: Anand v Carlsen

Post by MartinCarpenter » Mon Nov 18, 2013 2:39 pm

Would even training against computers help?

Never mind the destroyed self confidence, they're probably nowhere near as good as Carlsen is at setting little traps/keeping the positions just interesting enough etc. You'd almost need to train against Carlsen ;)

John Cox
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Re: Anand v Carlsen

Post by John Cox » Mon Nov 18, 2013 2:42 pm

Yes, that's true; we were talking about this at the weekend; in these positions Carlsen's not a machine, he's much better than that. OK then, get a second to play against you using the machine.

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Matt Mackenzie
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Re: Anand v Carlsen

Post by Matt Mackenzie » Mon Nov 18, 2013 6:14 pm

Have to agree with John and Geoff here - despite a few insipid draws, I have found this match fascinating.

Better than Anand v Gelfand for sure (and even that wasn't anywhere near as bad as some made out)
"Set up your attacks so that when the fire is out, it isn't out!" (H N Pillsbury)

Jonathan Bryant
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Re: Anand v Carlsen

Post by Jonathan Bryant » Mon Nov 18, 2013 9:12 pm

Mick Norris wrote:
AustinElliott wrote: though one has to admire Carlsen's endgame mastery
I beleive he has prepared by reading the S&B blog posts, and realises that the production of endings for blogging purposes is paramount :lol:
Agent Carlsen is certainly performing above expectations. Opening 1 Nf3; The Berlin, Rook endings ... the only thing left is a French Exchange.

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Mats Winther
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Re: Anand v Carlsen

Post by Mats Winther » Tue Nov 19, 2013 7:14 am

I think it's an enormous waste of genius, to have such players sit and play absolutely insipid chess, simply because it is the most comfortable way to come to grips with the game. What if Beethoven had wasted his genius on composing lullabies because it yielded a good income? Henri Matisse, during his Nice period, adopted a laid-back painting style, for which he was heavily criticized. This was a waste of genius. He eventually returned to creative painting.

Evidently, modern opening theory has yielded a too narrow opening tree. Commentators fantasized that Anand, in order to catch up, would play the King's gambit. But the King's gambit isn't playable anymore, at GM level. There exist methods of equalization. In fact, white puts himself in danger. It is becoming more and more evident that chess experiences a crisis at top level. I have argued that an enlargement of the opening tree could remedy this. There are simple methods that would allow Carlsen much greater strategical scope than what Reti or Anti-Berlin can offer. A few examples:

Relocation variants
Castle Chess
Variable Chess
Valiant Chess
Improved Chess

M. Winther

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Rob Thompson
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Re: Anand v Carlsen

Post by Rob Thompson » Tue Nov 19, 2013 7:49 am

I feel sad for people like Mats who apparently cannot understand the breathtaking brilliance of Carlsen's play in these sort of positions.
True glory lies in doing what deserves to be written; in writing what deserves to be read.

Simon Brown
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Re: Anand v Carlsen

Post by Simon Brown » Tue Nov 19, 2013 8:29 am

Completely agree. I feel even more sorry for people who think these ridiculous variants are the future of chess, when real chess unfolds new mysteries and beauty with every top-level tournament.

Jonathan Bryant
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Re: Anand v Carlsen

Post by Jonathan Bryant » Tue Nov 19, 2013 9:55 am

Rob Thompson wrote:I feel sad for people like Mats who apparently cannot understand the breathtaking brilliance of Carlsen's play in these sort of positions.
Thirded. I'd buff up my knowledge of rook endings, I think, before I was ready to proclaim chess played out.

In other news: is it me or has Carlsen has played a French Exchange in all but name today?

John Cox
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Re: Anand v Carlsen

Post by John Cox » Tue Nov 19, 2013 10:07 am

Rob Thompson wrote:I feel sad for people like Mats who apparently cannot understand the breathtaking brilliance of Carlsen's play in these sort of positions.
Do you? I don't. I find them tiresome bores and I wish they'd go away and follow wrestling or stock car racing or something, certainly, but I can't say I feel sorry for them.

Meanwhile, back at the ranch, surely it was time for 1...c5? Anand must have a hell of a good plan for making 2/2 with White if he's going to be content to play this sort of position with Black.

Chris Rice
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Re: Anand v Carlsen

Post by Chris Rice » Tue Nov 19, 2013 10:12 am

Carlsen with Be5 offering exchange of bishops, once that's done then just the knights and queens to go and the game can start.

MartinCarpenter
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Re: Anand v Carlsen

Post by MartinCarpenter » Tue Nov 19, 2013 10:14 am

Trying to make sure he at least gets to games 11/12 and hoping Carlsen somehow falls apart I suppose. Seems as good a try as anything else.

Whether this sort of thing is an ideal choice for surviving against Carlsen isn't totally obvious.

I'd be slightly depressed if the richness/variety of chess was reduced to just this but of course all sorts of games in all sorts of styles still being produced on a regular basis.

John Cox
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Re: Anand v Carlsen

Post by John Cox » Tue Nov 19, 2013 10:24 am

This sort of thing’s fine for surviving against Carlsen or anybody else, but it’s not going to retain the title. I know all about recovering your balance after two losses, and so on, but there simply isn’t time for it. It’s not as though the Najdorf or Kan are some wild gambles, and it’s Vishy’s territory not Magnus’s.

I thought this before the match; at some level, Vishy just doesn’t want this enough (as well as maybe no longer being good enough, but that’s a different issue). It’s not surprising; he’s 43 and has just had his first child. It’s time for the pipe and slippers and the occasional rapidplay outing, and he’s playing like it, I’m afraid.

John Brewitt
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Re: Anand v Carlsen

Post by John Brewitt » Tue Nov 19, 2013 10:42 am

Ladbrokes have Carlsen at 1/100 to win the match and Anand is 14/1 against. I don't think either one is worth a bet, especially the one on Anand. :lol:

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