Anand v Carlsen

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John Brewitt
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Re: Anand v Carlsen

Post by John Brewitt » Tue Nov 19, 2013 11:05 am

It's another tame draw after 25 moves.


When is Anand going to wake up? zzzzz

Trefor Owens
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Re: Anand v Carlsen

Post by Trefor Owens » Tue Nov 19, 2013 11:06 am

so the Match is over,
Carlsen is naturally happy to draw his way to the title and Anand appears to have no interest in winning, he is content to lose,as long as the points gap doesn't widen.

3 more quick draws anyone?

Jonathan Bryant
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Re: Anand v Carlsen

Post by Jonathan Bryant » Tue Nov 19, 2013 12:41 pm

Trefor Owens wrote: 3 more quick draws anyone?
Maybe, but I think it's too early to say for sure. Anand could have lost the match today. As it is, he's still in it. Just. Alive albeit in a deep coma, perhaps.

I can't say I expect him to make a comeback, but I always thought Carlsen would be at his most vulnerable in the last four games. If he's chosen to coast to the finish line rather than kick his opponent a bit more even though he's already down that might yet come back and bite him on the bum. It wouldn't be the first time in sport such a thing had happened.

We'll know more on Thursday. As I say, though, even if Vishy does decide to lob in the kitchen sink in game 9, I don't see him getting level.

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Christopher Kreuzer
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Re: Anand v Carlsen

Post by Christopher Kreuzer » Tue Nov 19, 2013 1:10 pm

Jonathan Bryant wrote:We'll know more on Thursday. As I say, though, even if Vishy does decide to lob in the kitchen sink in game 9, I don't see him getting level.
If you were Anand, would you 'lob in the kitchen sink' in game 9, 10 or 11?

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Matt Mackenzie
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Re: Anand v Carlsen

Post by Matt Mackenzie » Tue Nov 19, 2013 1:18 pm

I think Anand is going to have to try something in game 9, if he has any remaining ambitions at all.

Another tame draw then, and Magnus could wrap it up in the following encounter........
"Set up your attacks so that when the fire is out, it isn't out!" (H N Pillsbury)

MartinCarpenter
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Re: Anand v Carlsen

Post by MartinCarpenter » Tue Nov 19, 2013 1:21 pm

It'd all be much more plausible if he was only one down of course. With two to get, he has to try something in game 9.

Still don't think basically taking these two games out of the match hurt his (slim) chances that much. Vaguely useful to get Carlsen into lead defending mood.

Jonathan Bryant
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Re: Anand v Carlsen

Post by Jonathan Bryant » Tue Nov 19, 2013 1:25 pm

Game 9: pots & pans, cutlery drawer & those heavy cookery books on the shelf
Game 11: sink, all the plumbing and anything else that will come loose

John Cox
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Re: Anand v Carlsen

Post by John Cox » Tue Nov 19, 2013 2:33 pm

It seems to me that this was an opportunity he won’t get again; after 1…c5 it’s quite hard for White to avoid a fight, I’d have thought. There’s 3 Bb5+, I suppose, but even then you can play 3…Nd7 AFAIK.

I’d have more faith in a kitchen-sink-in-game-9 strategy if I had any idea how that might happen. I don’t see any sinks in the Berlin. It just about has to be the Scotch or else 1 d4, I’d have thought, and if he had either ready for the match it’s surprising we’ve not seen it before now. TBH everyone knew before the match that Carlsen would probably be playing the Berlin, and the prep we’ve seen against it so far has been pathetic.

Of course these guys know infinitely better than me or any of us, but still I’m finding it hard to escape the conclusion that Anand has given up and will just be glad when the match is over, and even that at some level that was true before the match.

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Re: Anand v Carlsen

Post by Ray Sayers » Tue Nov 19, 2013 3:49 pm

I was out all day. Came in, looked at the game and result. Saw it was a Berlin. Coffee nearly went down the wrong way.

I have to say that if you wanted to try to win as Black against Carlsen, playing Carlsen's favourite drawing opening was probably not the way to do it.

I suspect that Anand is trying to save a bit of face. But surely it would be better to give it a go and lose 3 - 0 than just hand over the title?

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Re: Anand v Carlsen

Post by Geoff Chandler » Tue Nov 19, 2013 4:23 pm

Maybe Anand played the Berlin to get an idea of how to attack it from Carlsen.

I'm putting a couple of quid on Anand at Ladbrokes.
Anand has got Carlsen just where he wants him. Looking all bored.
OK he had to drop points to do it but plan x is working.

Games 9 & 10 are insipid draws. The duller the better.

Game 11 will be Anands big TN and a slaughter will ensue.
Game 12 and a furious Magnus will over reach himself to trying to outdo Anand's previous game.
A stunned Magnus will lose the first play-off.

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Mats Winther
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Re: Anand v Carlsen

Post by Mats Winther » Tue Nov 19, 2013 4:51 pm

Simon Brown wrote:Completely agree. I feel even more sorry for people who think these ridiculous variants are the future of chess, when real chess unfolds new mysteries and beauty with every top-level tournament.
This is typical unhistorical eurocentrism. What you guys regard as "real chess" is really a chess variant, a few hundred years old. It is derived from Shatranj, which is still played in Arabic countries. Chinese Chess (Xiangqi), whose present form dates from about the beginning of the 12th century, is more popular than "real chess". Shogi (Japanese Chess) is also older than "real chess", although the present rules were fixed in the 16th century. Moreover, there are also other time-honoured variants, such as Korean Chess (Changgi), Hiashatar (Mongolian Grand Chess), Burmese Chess (Sittuyin), Thai Chess (Makruk)...

I don't know why you praize Carlsen's play so highly in this match. I would also win against Anand if he, for no reason at all, sacrifices a pawn in an equal ending against me. This match has shown that chess, the way it is played today, is a waste of genius. Millions of people are seated to watch a combat between two giants, and it peters out to a tiny rill of creativity. "Oh, how marvelous", you say, when Carlsen manages to count a few moves forward. I think this boils down to hero worship, and nothing more.

M. Winther

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Anand v Carlsen

Post by Roger de Coverly » Tue Nov 19, 2013 5:28 pm

Mats Winther wrote:Chinese Chess (Xiangqi), whose present form dates from about the beginning of the 12th century, is more popular than "real chess".
Evidence?

Whatever the exaggerations in Agon's claims of the worldwide billions, chess in the form we know it is played in almost every country in the world.

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Christopher Kreuzer
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Re: Anand v Carlsen

Post by Christopher Kreuzer » Tue Nov 19, 2013 5:39 pm

Mats may have a point or two, but can we not wait until the match is over before arguing about it?

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Mats Winther
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Re: Anand v Carlsen

Post by Mats Winther » Tue Nov 19, 2013 5:49 pm

Roger de Coverly wrote:
Mats Winther wrote:Chinese Chess (Xiangqi), whose present form dates from about the beginning of the 12th century, is more popular than "real chess".
Evidence?

Whatever the exaggerations in Agon's claims of the worldwide billions, chess in the form we know it is played in almost every country in the world.
Xiangqi leagues and clubs are also all over the world. Each European nation generally has its own governing league. In Britain, Xiangqi is regulated by the United Kingdom Chinese Chess Association. Shogi is also becoming more popular in the West (British Shogi Federation). Shogi rarely ends in a draw.

We don't really know which chess variant is played by most people, but it is believed that Xiangqi is the most popular. Xiangqi is an extremely tactical variant. It only revolves around clever tricks and tactics. There is no strategy in Xiangqi. For this reason, it has become very popular among the masses. Curiously, human GMs still beat the Xiangqi programs.

M. Winther

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Adam Raoof
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Re: Anand v Carlsen

Post by Adam Raoof » Tue Nov 19, 2013 5:53 pm

I am hosting the British Shogi Championships at Hampstead on 30 Nov to 1 Dec. There are 4 British players, of 14 or so entrants.

We have decided to hold an extra Hampstead (chess) Congress that weekend, and even with this late notice I don't think I will have a problem getting 30+ players.
Adam Raoof IA, IO
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