Anand v Carlsen

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John Cox
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Re: Anand v Carlsen

Post by John Cox » Thu Nov 21, 2013 2:39 pm

A distinctly superior method.

Jonathan Rogers
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Re: Anand v Carlsen

Post by Jonathan Rogers » Thu Nov 21, 2013 2:54 pm

(Nonsense analysis since deleted)

Which of Carlsen's wins do we find most impressive?

Ray Sayers

Re: Anand v Carlsen

Post by Ray Sayers » Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:13 pm

That's a tough one.

Easier to ask, which was Anand's biggest howler?

No disrespect to Carlsen of course; he deserved to win all 3 games and it's the guy who makes the last mistake who wins.

But I just wonder if Anand would have played those blunders against anyone except Carlsen?! (Not saying he wouldn't, just inviting comment!).

Matthew Turner
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Re: Anand v Carlsen

Post by Matthew Turner » Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:28 pm

I think the third win is brilliant because it is a tremendous piece of psychology, but it couldn't have come about without the first two wins. If you think about the first win, Anand has made a good start to the match, drawing the first 4 and he is faced with an insipid opening from White. 'All' he needs do is draw that one too and he will have two Whites to have a real go. Therefore surely given the game situation game 5 must be the most impressive win by Carlsen.

Kevin Thurlow
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Re: Anand v Carlsen

Post by Kevin Thurlow » Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:33 pm

More tripe from the press conference, Anand was asked about a long think he had, (something like) "Were you calculating complicated variations?", to which he said, (with a straight face and even tone), "No, I was wondering what to eat tonight."
Last edited by Kevin Thurlow on Fri Nov 22, 2013 7:58 am, edited 1 time in total.

Clive Blackburn

Re: Anand v Carlsen

Post by Clive Blackburn » Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:38 pm

Matthew Turner wrote:Therefore surely given the game situation game 5 must be the most impressive win by Carlsen.
I agree, game 5 - it shattered Anand's confidence and following that he must have thought that Carlsen was always likely to beat him in an endgame, even a level one.

Carlsen didn't do anything stunning in game 5, he just showed that he has studied rook and pawn endings more deeply than Anand and can play them out to the finish without blundering.

John Cox
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Re: Anand v Carlsen

Post by John Cox » Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:45 pm

Clive Blackburn wrote:[

Carlsen didn't do anything stunning in game 5, he just showed that he has studied rook and pawn endings more deeply than Anand and can play them out to the finish without blundering.
If you mean game 6, then I assure you that you're mistaken. Not one grandmaster in a hundred would have come up with Carlsen's 'last trap' and gone for it.

Ian Kingston
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Re: Anand v Carlsen

Post by Ian Kingston » Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:47 pm

MartinCarpenter wrote:I think anyone playing Rh3 in that position would be in some trouble with the computer transmited moves police :) Is this some real, very computerish, thing or a typo for the much more believable Bh3?
It's real - the idea is if Black takes and White recaptures with the bishop, the threat of Bf5, followed by mate at h7, forces Black to take a perpetual.

Of course, Carlsen might well have been happy with that.

Clive Blackburn

Re: Anand v Carlsen

Post by Clive Blackburn » Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:48 pm

John Cox wrote:
Clive Blackburn wrote:[

Carlsen didn't do anything stunning in game 5, he just showed that he has studied rook and pawn endings more deeply than Anand and can play them out to the finish without blundering.
If you mean game 6, then I assure you that you're mistaken. Not one grandmaster in a hundred would have come up with Carlsen's 'last trap' and gone for it.
No John, I did mean game 5, which was Carlsen's first win.

John Cox
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Re: Anand v Carlsen

Post by John Cox » Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:57 pm

Oh, OK. You confused me by saying it was the most impressive game and then saying Carlsen did nothing stunning, and then saying that all the action was in the rook ending, when Anand put himself on the brink by playing the wrong moves before that stage.

Clive Blackburn

Re: Anand v Carlsen

Post by Clive Blackburn » Thu Nov 21, 2013 4:21 pm

Game 5 was a rook ending as well, arising from a Berlin. It was theoretically drawn as well but Anand went wrong and let Carlsen get passed a + h pawns, which won it.

John Cox
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Re: Anand v Carlsen

Post by John Cox » Thu Nov 21, 2013 4:28 pm

Yes, I know. But I don't really recognise your description of the game. Still, whatever.

Jonathan Bryant
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Re: Anand v Carlsen

Post by Jonathan Bryant » Thu Nov 21, 2013 4:53 pm

Clive Blackburn wrote: Carlsen didn't do anything stunning in game 5, he just showed that he has studied rook and pawn endings more deeply than Anand and can play them out to the finish without blundering.
I'm not sure I understand the basis of your feeling that this game showed that Carlsen had studied more deeply, but I certainly agree about the importance of demonstrating strong practical play in rook endings. This was one area - probably the only one* - in which Carlsen had shown even the slightest wobble this year.





* well, there are some who would say a bit of a ramshackle opening repertoire should be counted there too, but I'm not sure everybody would agree.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Anand v Carlsen

Post by Roger de Coverly » Thu Nov 21, 2013 5:11 pm

Jonathan Bryant wrote: * well, there are some who would say a bit of a ramshackle opening repertoire should be counted there too, but I'm not sure everybody would agree.
Today's idea, both of taking on d5 with the pawn at move 7 and playing the immediate c4 was said to have been past preparation by the Norwegian team.

This game has some similarities to today's game 9.


John McKenna
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Re: Anand v Carlsen

Post by John McKenna » Thu Nov 21, 2013 6:09 pm

Clive Blackburn wrote:Game 5 was a rook ending as well, arising from a Berlin. It was theoretically drawn as well but Anand went wrong and let Carlsen get passed a + h pawns, which won it.
John Cox wrote:Yes, I know. But I don't really recognise your description of the game. Still, whatever.
I, too, did not recognise game 5 as a Berlin.

Chessbase News has it as ECO D31 (Geoff, sorry no PGN) -

Carlsen, Magnus–Anand, Viswanathan 1–0 D31 FWCM 2013 (5) Chennai 15.11.2013

1.c4 (Carlsen decides that he's had enough of 1. Nf3.)
1... e6 2.d4 d5 (Vishy opts for QGD, with which he won the decisive last game in his match v. Topalov.)
3.Nc3 c6 (Psyche! Now it is a triangle Semi Slav.)
4.e4 dxe4
5.Nxe4 Bb4+ (Is Magnus going to take Vishy on in the main lines of the Marshall Gambit?)
6.Nc3 (Nope. This is a quieter option for White, but it has plenty of sting...)

[comments by Josh Friedel]

To me this was game that showed the old tiger was no match for the young wolf.

I've enjoyed following all the comments on here including Geoff's eminently sensible and Mats' provocatively zany ones!

(Edit: Or Geoff's provocatively zany and Mats' eminently sensible ones?)

Is the mortally wounded tiger still dangerous or has he had enough?

We'll soon see.
Last edited by John McKenna on Thu Nov 21, 2013 6:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
To find a for(u)m that accommodates the mess, that is the task of the artist now. (Samuel Beckett)

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