Anand v Carlsen
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Re: Anand v Carlsen
Well, it is clear that Anand is happy to start with a draw as Black. If Anand had started with White, would Carlsen have been more ambitious? I guess we will find out tomorrow how that side of the opening preparation has been going. Talking of opening preparation, I'm assuming both players will have prepared several possible openings, but have concentrated more on some than others. It will be interesting to see what Carlsen plays as White in game 3 on Tuesday.
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Re: Anand v Carlsen
Today I had the choice between watching chess in person in Preston, or online in Chennai. I wish I had chosen Preston.
I do not wish to be too hard on Magnus, but can one imagine Fischer or Kasparov playing something so truly insipid as White?
I do not wish to be too hard on Magnus, but can one imagine Fischer or Kasparov playing something so truly insipid as White?
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Re: Anand v Carlsen
Magnus has far more leeway to be "insipid" with white, when he will seek to maximise his chances with black*. Bit like in tennis - a good returner often is not possessed with the greatest serve, because it is less important. One challenge for Anand may be to assess whether he can afford to pass up chances to press with black if he catches Magnus out in the opening (some of Magnus's most disastrous losses have come with the white pieces). It is also probably true IMO that Anand's best chance in this match is to win a key preparation battle and get ahead early.Nick Ivell wrote:Today I had the choice between watching chess in person in Preston, or online in Chennai. I wish I had chosen Preston.
I do not wish to be too hard on Magnus, but can one imagine Fischer or Kasparov playing something so truly insipid as White?
(*although admittedly perhaps Fischer and Kasparov are not the best comparators with which to make this point... )
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Re: Anand v Carlsen
There was that "must win" game 24 from the Seville match in 1987. Kasparov played all the same moves as Carlsen if not quite in the same order. The only exception was that d4 wasn't played. Kasparov played it for a slow build up of tension.Nick Ivell wrote: I do not wish to be too hard on Magnus, but can one imagine Fischer or Kasparov playing something so truly insipid as White?
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Re: Anand v Carlsen
Well, no, of course (WRT FIscher)...though remember where that mindset got him in the (in)famous first match game against Spassky. But Fischer was nearly unique (as other comments here allude to) in aiming uncompromisingly for wins with both Black and White in matchplay. Maybe Kasparov (again as others have said) is the other stand-out example of the same approach, see e.g. his surprising Anand with the not-very-drawish Dragon to sidestep Anand's preparation for GK's usual Sicilian set-up(s).Roger de Coverly wrote:Anand's 12. .. Nd5 was the technical novelty, in the sense that no-one at any level is recorded as having previously played that move. The "but" is that engines recommend the repetition as in the game.AustinElliott wrote:By move ten or so he was the one making concrete threats, and that while playing black.
There's an attitude issue. It would be quite a long shot to assume Fischer playing that opening as White, but as Black he would use that c6, d5 system with the Bg7 as an alternative to the Kings Indian. Would he have steered the game into a position where a repetition was best play?
One would hazard a strong bet after today that Anand's match strategy with Black is to use his superior opening prep to steer for lines with concrete early tactics where preparation is key, and therefore Carlsen is both less likely to get strategic edges, and more likely to have to, as he put it, 'pull the emergency brake'. I guess the corollary is that Anand has to aim for wins with White, so perhaps tomorrow we will get a hint as to how he is going to try and do that.
It would be interesting to know if Carlsen has done much opening preparation. One presumes so, but he has done so well with 'Get to the middle game and then let's play chess' that maybe he simply doesn't do detailed opening analysis? This approach has worked for him in tournaments, even against the world's best players, and the choice of a double fianchetto system as White sort of suggests as much. But of course it does run the risk that he will be playing most of the match on ground of Anand's choosing, opening-wise, and thus into the middle game too.
Last edited by AustinElliott on Sat Nov 09, 2013 11:54 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Anand v Carlsen
Anand can certainly count today's game as a significant success.
However as Joel Benjamin said on the ICC - Anand had essentially turned the game so that he effectively had a typical slight edge that White would normally have, but with the Black pieces - perhaps he ought to have played on.
I wonder how often he'll end up with such positions throughout the course of the match.
However as Joel Benjamin said on the ICC - Anand had essentially turned the game so that he effectively had a typical slight edge that White would normally have, but with the Black pieces - perhaps he ought to have played on.
I wonder how often he'll end up with such positions throughout the course of the match.
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Re: Anand v Carlsen
If he repeats the start of today's game then one suspects 9 Nc3 will not be re-appearing.Christopher Kreuzer wrote:It will be interesting to see what Carlsen plays as White in game 3 on Tuesday.
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Re: Anand v Carlsen
As has been noted before, this is always a potential problem with short matches. Firstly 12 games isn't long enough (generally - maybe an exception where Carlsen is involved) to get the match past a point where the advance (as opposed to in-match) preparation is exhausted. Secondly one loss can be disastrous with so little time to recover, so it leads to risk averse chess. (not that one can't find counter arguments in practice with longer matches of the past!)
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Re: Anand v Carlsen
All in all, a bore and a disappointment. The only way is up.
Anand will be happy. I suspect his main advantage will be his opening preparation. Not sure how much home advantage will play in his favour. This is not Old Trafford!
Anand will be happy. I suspect his main advantage will be his opening preparation. Not sure how much home advantage will play in his favour. This is not Old Trafford!
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Re: Anand v Carlsen
It's a normal move with the alternative being 9. Nbd2. GMs such as Korchnoi, Ribli and Fressinet have all elected for Nbd2.AustinElliott wrote: If he repeats the start of today's game then one suspects 9 Nc3 will not be re-appearing.
Rushing forwards with 11. c5 would also seem to be a move to avoid, if Black has an instant draw with Nc4 and Nd5.
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Re: Anand v Carlsen
Roger de Coverly wrote:... Kasparov played all the same moves as Carlsen if not quite in the same order.Nick Ivell wrote: I do not wish to be too hard on Magnus, but can one imagine Fischer or Kasparov playing something so truly insipid as White?
Like a certain Mr Morecambe when facing Andrew Preview?
As for insipid, well Flank Openings can be like that (in my experience of playing them as White anyway). There's a fine line between getting bugger all (or less) and getting a slight or perhaps just a very slight edge but one that lasts for the whole game.
I would have liked for more too, but this is the nature of chess. At least it was a complete game and didn't just stop like so many of the Kramnik - Leko games.
And from a match point of view it throws up a whole load of interesting issues for Carlsen to deal with.
The Abysmal Depths of Chess: https://theabysmaldepthsofchess.blogspot.com
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Re: Anand v Carlsen
Hard to say whether Fischer would have continued, because turning up to defend his title against younger challengers altogether was not his forte
And this indicates a more serious answer - Fischer was able to have his "no draws" stance because he always believed he was the best player in the world; when he was not confident he did not play at all (for various periods in the 1960s) and of course retired while still not past 30. We couldn't have had a 40+ years old Fischer playing in Anand's current position.
And this indicates a more serious answer - Fischer was able to have his "no draws" stance because he always believed he was the best player in the world; when he was not confident he did not play at all (for various periods in the 1960s) and of course retired while still not past 30. We couldn't have had a 40+ years old Fischer playing in Anand's current position.
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Re: Anand v Carlsen
You sound a bit like some of the posters on chessgames.comNick Ivell wrote:Truly, not a good advert for the game. Magnus needs to do much better with the white pieces. Is this what happens after months of preparation?
Early days of course, but I was hoping for something more carnivorous after the Anand - Gelfand bore-fest.
Opening games in world championships are often cagey affairs, but Anand was the definite "moral victor" in that one.
Not, perhaps, what some were predicting - how will Carlsen respond with Black in the next game?
"Set up your attacks so that when the fire is out, it isn't out!" (H N Pillsbury)
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Re: Anand v Carlsen
The Carlsen match plan, brilliant in it's simplicity and totally unexpected.
Play insipd Chess and eventually the home crowd will turn on their hero forcing him to do something...anything.
The first risk Anand makes in the interest of entertainment and Carlsen will be ready for him.
(well that is the plan anyway.)
Play insipd Chess and eventually the home crowd will turn on their hero forcing him to do something...anything.
The first risk Anand makes in the interest of entertainment and Carlsen will be ready for him.
(well that is the plan anyway.)
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Re: Anand v Carlsen
I think Howell is lost after 22..Nc5. Probably the wrong type of game to try against Kotronias
23. Nxc5 Bxf2+ 24. Qxf2 Rxf2 25. Kxf2 - White has 3 pieces for a queen & pawn, but no secure outposts for the pieces and low on time...
23. Nxc5 Bxf2+ 24. Qxf2 Rxf2 25. Kxf2 - White has 3 pieces for a queen & pawn, but no secure outposts for the pieces and low on time...
Last edited by Nick Burrows on Sat Nov 09, 2013 4:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.