Carlsen - Anand 2014

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Roger de Coverly
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Carlsen - Anand 2014

Post by Roger de Coverly » Thu Aug 21, 2014 7:46 pm

This is scheduled for November, if it takes place.

http://www.nrk.no/sport/carlsen-har-for ... 1.11891911

You will need Google translate.

I assume they refer to Agon.
According to Carlsen-manager involves a lot of uncertainty about the company that bought World Cup match, and that arranges. Magnus Carlsen and his team recognized very little about the company.

- FIDE will not even say who owns it, says Agdestein.

Mick Norris
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Re: Carlsen - Anand 2014

Post by Mick Norris » Fri Aug 22, 2014 8:52 pm

https://chess24.com/en/read/news/fide-r ... pone-match
Match sponsor subject to EU sanctions

The difficult situation in Russia, and the newly imposed EU sanctions against banks and high-profile individuals, are clearly contributing factors in the Carlsen team's reluctance to play the match in Sochi on schedule. Although FIDE and Russia no doubt have ways to get around it, the fact that the proposed match sponsor, Krasnodar Governor Alexandar Tkachyov, is on the EU’s latest sanction list is cause for concern in the Carlsen camp.
Any postings on here represent my personal views and should not be taken as representative of the Manchester Chess Federation www.manchesterchess.co.uk

Chris Rice
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Re: Carlsen - Anand 2014

Post by Chris Rice » Sat Aug 23, 2014 7:26 am

So Illyumzhinov's first action is his new term is to threaten to strip Carlsen of his world title if he doesn't go to Sochi and put Karjackin in his place. http://www.chess.com/news/carlsen-wants ... ys-no-4653

Ray Sayers

Re: Carlsen - Anand 2014

Post by Ray Sayers » Sat Aug 23, 2014 7:31 am

It's funny how history repeats itself for a western champion.
'The Russians want to steal the world championship'.

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Paolo Casaschi
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Re: Carlsen - Anand 2014

Post by Paolo Casaschi » Sat Aug 23, 2014 10:31 am

Ray Sayers wrote:It's funny how history repeats itself for a western champion.
'The Russians want to steal the world championship'.
Well, you could also see it the other way: a western player becomes world champion and immediately turns into a primadonna up to withdrawing from the next world championship match against a legitimate challenger. If I remember correctly, last time the FIDE president was not Russian.

Ray Sayers

Re: Carlsen - Anand 2014

Post by Ray Sayers » Sat Aug 23, 2014 3:25 pm

I am sure That is exactly the spin Putin & KI would like to put on it.

Introducing Karjakin as Anands challenger only adds to that suspicion.

If Carlsen doesn't play, Anand should win by default. It worked for Karpov in 1975.

Leonard Barden
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Re: Carlsen - Anand 2014

Post by Leonard Barden » Sat Aug 23, 2014 5:18 pm

Fide's published match regulations don't allow for a default:

3.6.2 If a player refuses to participate in the World Championship Match, he will be replaced
as follows: The runner up finalist of FWCM 2013, GM Viswanathan Anand, replaces the
World champion Magnus Carlsen and the runner up of the Candidates Tournament 2014
replaces the challenger. In case any or both players refuse to participate when invited, or for
any further replacements needed, the FIDE rating list of January 2014 will be used to
determine their replacements.

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Paolo Casaschi
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Re: Carlsen - Anand 2014

Post by Paolo Casaschi » Sat Aug 23, 2014 5:37 pm

Ray Sayers wrote:I am sure That is exactly the spin Putin & KI would like to put on it.

Introducing Karjakin as Anands challenger only adds to that suspicion.

If Carlsen doesn't play, Anand should win by default. It worked for Karpov in 1975.
There are more recent precedents for a substitution: when GK and NS went their own way, a FIDE world championship match was played by the candidates runner-ups AK and JT. Having a match anyway looks like the most sensible things to do rather than awarding the title by default. It seems to me that in 1975 FIDE was just not prepared to the possibility and had no rules to cope as they have now.

Lewis Martin
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Re: Carlsen - Anand 2014

Post by Lewis Martin » Sun Aug 24, 2014 3:10 pm

Leonard Barden wrote:Fide's published match regulations don't allow for a default:

3.6.2 If a player refuses to participate in the World Championship Match, he will be replaced
as follows: The runner up finalist of FWCM 2013, GM Viswanathan Anand, replaces the
World champion Magnus Carlsen and the runner up of the Candidates Tournament 2014
replaces the challenger. In case any or both players refuse to participate when invited, or for
any further replacements needed, the FIDE rating list of January 2014 will be used to
determine their replacements.
So if this happens, then effectively, Anand has loaned the title to Carlsen for one year, especially if he succeeds in beating Karjakin (I believe he is the replacement).

As for the players refusing to take part and using the January list for their replacements: well, what happens if there is a real boycott from the world's best players? (i.e. following Carlsen)

Is a world title match between Lewis Martin and Roger De Coverly on the cards?

NickFaulks
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Re: Carlsen - Anand 2014

Post by NickFaulks » Sun Aug 24, 2014 3:21 pm

Lewis Martin wrote: well, what happens if there is a real boycott from the world's best players?
Why might there be?

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Paolo Casaschi
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Re: Carlsen - Anand 2014

Post by Paolo Casaschi » Sun Aug 24, 2014 3:23 pm

Lewis Martin wrote:As for the players refusing to take part and using the January list for their replacements: well, what happens if there is a real boycott from the world's best players? (i.e. following Carlsen)
Why would anyone else join an (extremely unlikely) boycott from MC?
Why would any of the Russian players above 2700 would ever do something like that?
And, after all, why would MC go through with it instead of just using the threat as a negotiation tool for better conditions, more money and increased media attention?

Lewis Martin
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Re: Carlsen - Anand 2014

Post by Lewis Martin » Sun Aug 24, 2014 4:24 pm

Replying to above: I agree it is all very unlikely - at this moment in time. I am merely pointing out the flaw in that clause. There may be players that would feel embarrassed to play the match if the 'rightful' contenders had disputes with the organisation and they back their refusal to play. It is being hypothetical.

Simon Brown
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Re: Carlsen - Anand 2014

Post by Simon Brown » Sun Aug 24, 2014 4:27 pm

Lewis Martin wrote:There may be players that would feel embarrassed to play the match if the 'rightful' contenders had disputes with the organisation and they back their refusal to play. It is being hypothetical.
They didn't seem to mind last time.

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Paolo Casaschi
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Re: Carlsen - Anand 2014

Post by Paolo Casaschi » Sun Aug 24, 2014 4:32 pm

Lewis Martin wrote:Replying to above: I agree it is all very unlikely - at this moment in time. I am merely pointing out the flaw in that clause. There may be players that would feel embarrassed to play the match if the 'rightful' contenders had disputes with the organisation and they back their refusal to play. It is being hypothetical.
Not sure I understand what flaw do you see: there are players qualified to the WC and rules to replace them if needed. In case, I'm sure they won't be short of super-GM willing to play a multi-million match for the WC title. Same as when GK and NS went their own way and a replacement FIDE WC was easily arranged. Or when FIDE changed the WC cycle for a knock-out event, still plenty of players willing to compete for the redefined WC title. Chess players do not get embarrassed so easily...

Jonathan Rogers
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Re: Carlsen - Anand 2014

Post by Jonathan Rogers » Sun Aug 24, 2014 5:20 pm

Quite. And that's to say nothing of Vladimir "you're right, Gary, let's forget that Shirov beat me in the qualifier, if it's easier to find someone to sponsor a match between us" Kramnik in 1999/2000.

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