PokerStars Isle of Man International 4-12 October 2014

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David Grobler
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Re: PokerStars Isle of Man International 4-12 October 2014

Post by David Grobler » Sat Oct 11, 2014 8:01 pm

but after this tournament performance ? He will rank higher surely ?

Lewis Martin
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Re: PokerStars Isle of Man International 4-12 October 2014

Post by Lewis Martin » Sat Oct 11, 2014 8:06 pm

David Grobler wrote:The official website isnt very good . So...assuming Chess results is correct (it showed 1-0 for a while now)...can Alan get a GM norm ?
I think this is a more important performance than Short/Howell/Hawkins etc....just my opinion....
A GM norm/IM norm is a very good achievement, however I would think that winning a strong international tournament is considerably harder (even if you are already 2600+), particularly if you haven't won many before.

I think the problem is how you are saying 'important' as if they should be ranked/quantified. All 4 players should be celebrated at least.

Short has been around for many years, and we know what he is capable of, though it will still be brilliant since his form hasn't been so great of late.

Howell winning it will probably be the finest performance (in my opinion) especially after beating Adams and Vachier-Lagrave probably his best game results ever in the same tournament.

Anything positive should be celebrated.

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David Grobler
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Re: PokerStars Isle of Man International 4-12 October 2014

Post by David Grobler » Sat Oct 11, 2014 8:09 pm

yes..."anything positive should be celebrated"....I just think Master Merrys performance has been awesome..and should be "more than celebrated" :-)

Lewis Martin
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Re: PokerStars Isle of Man International 4-12 October 2014

Post by Lewis Martin » Sat Oct 11, 2014 8:13 pm

David Grobler wrote:but after this tournament performance ? He will rank higher surely ?
Yes, but he was over 2300 before his decline. It might well be that he reaches his highest rating afterwards, I don't know enough about his performances though I can look it up quite easily (and I don't particularly care too much).

I think what Leonard means, is that the fact while this is a good individual achievement, if you were saying "for a junior", then comparatively to his peers around the world, it perhaps shouldn't be as magnified as you would make it. (Apologies Leonard, if that wasn't your intention!)

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IM Jack Rudd
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Re: PokerStars Isle of Man International 4-12 October 2014

Post by IM Jack Rudd » Sat Oct 11, 2014 8:15 pm

Merry will get a GM norm with a win against pretty much anyone he can face on that score. To get one with a draw, I think his opponent needs to be at least in the 2680s.

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David Grobler
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Re: PokerStars Isle of Man International 4-12 October 2014

Post by David Grobler » Sat Oct 11, 2014 8:19 pm

well...I shall bow and move into the background . I wonder if this sort of posting is helpful in encouraging our juniors though ? He might make a GM norm ?...and you dismiss it as being run of the mill ?

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David Grobler
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Re: PokerStars Isle of Man International 4-12 October 2014

Post by David Grobler » Sat Oct 11, 2014 8:21 pm

IM Jack Rudd wrote:Merry will get a GM norm with a win against pretty much anyone he can face on that score. To get one with a draw, I think his opponent needs to be at least in the 2680s.
thanks Jack...Im glad you have made an effort to work it all out !

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David Grobler
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Re: PokerStars Isle of Man International 4-12 October 2014

Post by David Grobler » Sat Oct 11, 2014 8:22 pm

but just a question...if he loses...does he get his second IM norm ?

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IM Jack Rudd
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Re: PokerStars Isle of Man International 4-12 October 2014

Post by IM Jack Rudd » Sat Oct 11, 2014 8:23 pm

David Grobler wrote:but just a question...if he loses...does he get his second IM norm ?
No, he gets his third. :D

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David Grobler
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Re: PokerStars Isle of Man International 4-12 October 2014

Post by David Grobler » Sat Oct 11, 2014 8:28 pm

IM Jack Rudd wrote:
David Grobler wrote:but just a question...if he loses...does he get his second IM norm ?
No, he gets his third. :D
ha ! apologies :oops:

Leonard Barden
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Re: PokerStars Isle of Man International 4-12 October 2014

Post by Leonard Barden » Sat Oct 11, 2014 9:05 pm

What is not entirely clear, at least to me, is how many rating points Merry gains from his performance.

The Fide rating regulations state

8.56
K is the development coefficient.
K = 40 for a player new to the rating list until he has completed events with at least 30 games
K = 20 as long as a player's rating remains under 2400.
K = 10 once a player's published rating has reached 2400 and remains at that level subsequently, even if the rating drops below 2400.
K = 40 for all players until their 18th birthday, as long as their rating remains under 2300.

Merry is not 18 until next month. His rating has previously been above 2300, but is now under 2300. Will his performance be calculated as K=20 or a jackpot K=40?

Lewis Martin
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Re: PokerStars Isle of Man International 4-12 October 2014

Post by Lewis Martin » Sat Oct 11, 2014 9:19 pm

David Grobler wrote:well...I shall bow and move into the background . I wonder if this sort of posting is helpful in encouraging our juniors though ? He might make a GM norm ?...and you dismiss it as being run of the mill ?
I think you are misunderstanding me.

Of course, it should be celebrated any time any English player makes norms.

I am just saying that winning an international tournament (even if it is on the Isle of Man!) is harder, a reflection on your assertion that Merry's norm is a finer achievement than Howell/Short winning it or Hawkins finally getting his GM title (a new GM is something that hasn't happened for a few years however - for a while it seemed to be when, not if for Hawkins anyway)

Roger de Coverly
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Re: PokerStars Isle of Man International 4-12 October 2014

Post by Roger de Coverly » Sat Oct 11, 2014 9:39 pm

Leonard Barden wrote: Merry is not 18 until next month. His rating has previously been above 2300, but is now under 2300. Will his performance be calculated as K=20 or a jackpot K=40?
I wondered as well if he would get a boost towards 2400. His most recent rated games were at (K=20) so it looks as if it works the same way as the K=10 switch which is a permanent change.

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Re: PokerStars Isle of Man International 4-12 October 2014

Post by Roger de Coverly » Sat Oct 11, 2014 10:17 pm

Top 11 pairings for the final round

Code: Select all

1 	GM Short, Nigel D 		6.5 	ENG 	2646 	GM Howell, David W L 		6.5 	ENG 	2657 	
2 	GM Tiviakov, Sergei 		6.0 	NED 	2668 	GM Fressinet, Laurent 		6.0 	FRA 	2713 	
3 	GM Popilski, Gil 		6.0 	ISR 	2493 	GM Vachier-Lagrave, Maxime 		5.5 	FRA 	2757 	
4 	IM Hawkins, Jonathan 		5.5 	ENG 	2533 	GM Sargissian, Gabriel 		5.5 	ARM 	2690 	
5 	GM Adams, Michael 		5.0 	ENG 	2758 	GM Arkell, Keith C 		5.0 	ENG 	2450 	
6 	GM Jones, Gawain C B 		5.0 	ENG 	2664 	IM Raznikov, Danny 		5.0 	ISR 	2492 	
7 	GM Gupta, Abhijeet 		5.0 	IND 	2640 	IM Van Foreest, Jorden 		5.0 	NED 	2455 	
8 	GM Gormally, Daniel W 		5.0 	ENG 	2488 	GM Fridman, Daniel 		5.0 	GER 	2635 	
9 	GM Smith, Bryan G 		5.0 	USA 	2482 	GM Greenfeld, Alon 		5.0 	ISR 	2542 	
10 	Mindlin, Alon 		5.0 	ISR 	2259 	GM Harika, Dronavalli 	w 	5.0 	IND 	2528 	
11 	FM Merry, Alan B 		5.0 	ENG 	2269 	GM Boruchovsky, Avital 		5.0 	ISR 	2501 	

Sean Hewitt
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Re: PokerStars Isle of Man International 4-12 October 2014

Post by Sean Hewitt » Sat Oct 11, 2014 10:29 pm

Leonard Barden wrote:What is not entirely clear, at least to me, is how many rating points Merry gains from his performance.

The Fide rating regulations state

8.56
K is the development coefficient.
K = 40 for a player new to the rating list until he has completed events with at least 30 games
K = 20 as long as a player's rating remains under 2400.
K = 10 once a player's published rating has reached 2400 and remains at that level subsequently, even if the rating drops below 2400.
K = 40 for all players until their 18th birthday, as long as their rating remains under 2300.

Merry is not 18 until next month. His rating has previously been above 2300, but is now under 2300. Will his performance be calculated as K=20 or a jackpot K=40?
As FIDE have implemented my suggested formula in this respect, I can answer this. Once a player goes over 2300 he loses his k=40. As that has already happened to Alan, he is now k=20, irrespective of dropping back (temporarily) below 2300.

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