2nd GM norm for Daniel Fernandez

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LawrenceCooper
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Re: 2nd GM norm for Daniel Fernandez

Post by LawrenceCooper » Wed Oct 18, 2017 4:19 pm

Christopher Kreuzer wrote:Thanks.

As of 18 October 2017:

1792 FIDE Arbiters (FA)
2110 International Arbiters (IA)
439 International Organisers (IO)

I had forgotten about the IO title.

I guess there being more IAs despite the IA being a 'higher' title might be because the FA was maybe introduced more recently (I don't know the history of the titles)? I don't suppose there is anywhere that explains or states when the various titles were introduced?

I'd better not ask about the hierarchy and history of the instructor/trainer titles - expect to speculate that maybe these titles are more common in other countries? The ones listed on the FIDE website search form are: Developmental Instructor, National Instructor, FIDE Instructor, FIDE Trainer and FIDE Senior Trainer.
I can only comment on the "Development Instructor" title which was awarded on payment of a fee without any demonstration of coaching ability but was necessary to allow me into the tournament hall at the Olympiad as a captain :roll:

Mick Norris
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Re: 2nd GM norm for Daniel Fernandez

Post by Mick Norris » Wed Oct 18, 2017 7:36 pm

LawrenceCooper wrote: without any demonstration of coaching ability
There's a Wenger joke somewhere there
Any postings on here represent my personal views

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Re: 2nd GM norm for Daniel Fernandez

Post by Alex Holowczak » Wed Oct 18, 2017 11:18 pm

Christopher Kreuzer wrote:I was going to ask at what age other UK FIDE Arbiters attained those titles (though some will have been arbiting since before the titles were introduced?
I became a FA and then an IA in 2012, when I was 22.

You cannot upgrade from Category D until you've been an arbiter for 5 years. In Antalya, I was upgraded from Category D to Category B, that period having elapsed.

You can do an advanced search for all the IAs born in 1990, and then modify it to find some younger ones: https://ratings.fide.com/advaction.phtm ... e&line=asc

In terms of IAs born in 1990 or later, not including me:
- 1990, one from Iran, one from Singapore, one from Estonia, one from Russia and one from Kazakhstan.
- 1991, one from Australia, one from Austria and one from Uzbekistan.
- 1992, one from the Czech Republic, one from India and one from Iran.
- 1994, one from Qatar. She will have got the FA title automatically by passing the test, but was older than me when I got the title.

You can do the same for IO. In terms of IOs born in 1990 or later, not including me:
- 1990, a Russian
- 1991, an Austrian, the same as the IA above

The list of arbiter categories hasn't been updated yet, but I'll be the youngest on the category B list, unless one of the above also became category B in Antalya: http://www.fide.com/FIDE/handbook/B06annex2b.pdf

FA isn't such an exclusive club, there are several of those born in 1996 apart from Tom: https://ratings.fide.com/advaction.phtm ... e&line=asc

There's even one born in 1997, because he's Kenyan so all he had to do was pass the test, and apparently no one noticed he isn't 21 yet: https://ratings.fide.com/advaction.phtm ... e&line=asc

So in terms of youth, there are 7-12 IAs younger than me, and I'm the youngest in Category B (subject to the caveat that none of the upgrades from Antalya are shown yet), possibly the second or third youngest IO, and Tom would be one of the youngest FAs if not for that apparent oversight with the Kenyan.

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Christopher Kreuzer
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Re: 2nd GM norm for Daniel Fernandez

Post by Christopher Kreuzer » Thu Oct 19, 2017 1:01 am

Category B and Category D levels for IA? Who ever knew that?! *eyes glazing over* (sorry!)

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Re: 2nd GM norm for Daniel Fernandez

Post by Stewart Reuben » Thu Oct 19, 2017 3:13 am

I think the yungest-ever IA was Sophia Gorman, Sophia Rohde for many years. She was English, now USA, and about 18 years old. When I proposed her at the BCF Board Meeting there was opposition until I pointed out that Campo would nominate her himself, if we didn't. After all, she had been deputy arbiter at the Acorn Aomputer World Championship Semifinals in 1983.
We have a long history of not being ageist in chess administration. Thus Lee Coyle was a BCF Arbiter at 14. Nathanael Lutton first assisted me at 6! We tried to get Thomas Thorpe awarded his FA title a couple of years ago, but without success.
I was first a chess administrator at 14. Thus I am celebrating my Chess Jubilee administrator year now. A chess jubilee is, of course, 64 years. I ran my school lunchtime chess club in 1953 and captained Islington (adult) Club second team in the Middlesex League.
I created the title International Organiser. Of the first 5, 4 were English plus Ignatius Leong of Singapore.

I have never understood the FIDE opposition to young arbiters.

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Re: 2nd GM norm for Daniel Fernandez

Post by David Sedgwick » Thu Oct 19, 2017 9:23 am

Christopher Kreuzer wrote:Category B and Category D levels for IA? Who ever knew that?! *eyes glazing over* (sorry!)
You take considerable interest in the titles and norms achieved by English players.

Why are you so dismissive of the corresponding achievements of English arbiters?

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Re: 2nd GM norm for Daniel Fernandez

Post by NickFaulks » Thu Oct 19, 2017 9:32 am

Alex Holowczak wrote:There's even one born in 1997, because he's Kenyan so all he had to do was pass the test, and apparently no one noticed he isn't 21 yet: https://ratings.fide.com/advaction.phtm ... e&line=asc
He doesn't appear ever to have arbited a FIDE rated tournament, so no harm done.
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Michael Farthing
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Re: 2nd GM norm for Daniel Fernandez

Post by Michael Farthing » Thu Oct 19, 2017 9:37 am

Replacing

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, so
with

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and I would be in agreement.

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Christopher Kreuzer
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Re: 2nd GM norm for Daniel Fernandez

Post by Christopher Kreuzer » Thu Oct 19, 2017 9:47 am

David Sedgwick wrote:
Christopher Kreuzer wrote:Category B and Category D levels for IA? Who ever knew that?! *eyes glazing over* (sorry!)
You take considerable interest in the titles and norms achieved by English players.

Why are you so dismissive of the corresponding achievements of English arbiters?
It wasn't intended to be dismissive. I have great respect for the achievements of English (and Welsh and Scottish) arbiters. I was trying to be humourous about how arcane some of the lesser known aspects are, but ended up causing offence. Sorry.

(Are there category A and category C levels?)

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Re: 2nd GM norm for Daniel Fernandez

Post by NickFaulks » Thu Oct 19, 2017 10:01 am

Stewart Reuben wrote:I created the title International Organiser.
I've never really understood that one, other than as a source of income for FIDE.
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Re: 2nd GM norm for Daniel Fernandez

Post by Alex Holowczak » Thu Oct 19, 2017 10:27 am

Christopher Kreuzer wrote:(Are there category A and category C levels?)
Yes. I skipped C because in the time it took for the 5 years to elapse, I ended up meeting the requirements for Category B too.

Lara Barnes was upgraded from B to A in Antalya.

If you go here, you can see them all, although they haven't been updated post-Antalya: http://arbiters.fide.com/arbiters-classification.html

England's other category A arbiters are David Sedgwick and Gerry Walsh. Without being a Chief Arbiter or Deputy Chief Arbiter at World or Continental events, or very strong Round Robins, you can't get to Category A. Realistically, this means I'm unlikely to get beyond B in the near future; England doesn't host any international events (and in the unlikely event that we do, I'd no doubt be tasked with organising it in my ECF capacity), and the one Round Robin apparently has an uncertain future based on what was reported on here from a reading of Malcolm's editorial, and in any case takes place while I'm busy with the Open going on alongside it. I suspect now that Lara has reached Category A, it'll be a while before anyone else from England gets to it.

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Re: 2nd GM norm for Daniel Fernandez

Post by David Sedgwick » Thu Oct 19, 2017 11:22 am

Christopher Kreuzer wrote: It wasn't intended to be dismissive. I have great respect for the achievements of English (and Welsh and Scottish) arbiters. I was trying to be humourous about how arcane some of the lesser known aspects are, but ended up causing offence. Sorry.
Thank you.

Christopher Kreuzer wrote:(Are there category A and category C levels?)
Alex Holowczak wrote:
... I skipped C because in the time it took for the 5 years to elapse, I ended up meeting the requirements for Category B too. ...

Lara Barnes was upgraded from B to A in Antalya.

England's other category A arbiters are David Sedgwick and Gerry Walsh. Without being a Chief Arbiter or Deputy Chief Arbiter at World or Continental events, or very strong Round Robins, you can't get to Category A. Realistically, this means I'm unlikely to get beyond B in the near future; England doesn't host any international events (and in the unlikely event that we do, I'd no doubt be tasked with organising it in my ECF capacity), and the one Round Robin apparently has an uncertain future based on what was reported on here from a reading of Malcolm's editorial, and in any case takes place while I'm busy with the Open going on alongside it. I suspect now that Lara has reached Category A, it'll be a while before anyone else from England gets to it.
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Christopher Kreuzer
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Re: 2nd GM norm for Daniel Fernandez

Post by Christopher Kreuzer » Thu Oct 19, 2017 12:24 pm

Thanks. I have (briefly) been trying to work out which events held in England (and Gibraltar and the Isle of Man) in the recent past (e.g. last 10 years) were the ones that were the major events meeting the category A or category B criteria. From memory, the major events would be tournaments like the most recent Isle of Man Open, the more recent Gibraltar Opens, the London Chess Classic round robins, and the March 2013 Candidates Tournament in London.

EDIT: Adding the Grand Prix APA in September and October 2012, mentioned by Stewart below.
Last edited by Christopher Kreuzer on Thu Oct 19, 2017 12:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 2nd GM norm for Daniel Fernandez

Post by Stewart Reuben » Thu Oct 19, 2017 12:35 pm

Nick >I've never really understood that one, other than as a source of income for FIDE. (Writing about the IO title).

It is useful when speaking to potential sponsors to show a level of professional competence.
It is useful for FIDE to show a mark of respect for the work of people.
I never intended there to be an exam. Alex H tells me that is ludicrous in certain respects.
What is the use of the I A, FA or NA titles? How can it possibly be the responsibility of FIDE to award a national title?

Alex H > England doesn't host any international events< Well, that puts Hastings, the London Chess Classic and British Championships in their place! What you mean is that we haven't hosted a FIDE event since the Candidates - and just before that the FIDE Grand Prix all play all.

Nigel Short to me, 'What is the point of the GM, etc. titles?'
Me, 'It is part of the energy supply that makes international tournaments run.'

The last time I costed a major FIDE event, the World Youth, I estimated a cost of £1.3 million to be held in London in 2012. The bottom promptly dropped out of our economy and I couldn't find a sponsor.

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Re: 2nd GM norm for Daniel Fernandez

Post by NickFaulks » Thu Oct 19, 2017 12:49 pm

Stewart Reuben wrote:How can it possibly be the responsibility of FIDE to award a national title?
NA isn't so much an award as a designation - and, of course, a scam. There is no requirement that you have ever played, or even watched, a game of chess. You need only to be at least 16 years old and to have paid some money.
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