WC Match 2016 - New York 10-30 November

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Christopher Kreuzer
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Re: WC Match 2016 - New York 10-30 November

Post by Christopher Kreuzer » Fri Nov 25, 2016 1:14 am

I have a horrible feeling there may be a draw in there somewhere...

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Marcus Misson
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Re: WC Match 2016 - New York 10-30 November

Post by Marcus Misson » Fri Nov 25, 2016 1:18 am

Carlsen winning! (>+4)
Is this match as important geopoliticaly as Fisher Spassky or the K vs K matches (not Kramnik!)?
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Christopher Kreuzer
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Re: WC Match 2016 - New York 10-30 November

Post by Christopher Kreuzer » Fri Nov 25, 2016 8:42 am

Hmm. Video evidence in the chess24.com report of a touch-move controversy:

https://chess24.com/en/read/news/carlse ... us-is-back

(OK, it looks like he was just adjusting the pawn, but still mildly surprising.)

Both players seemed absolutely shattered after that game. I wonder if the last two games will be quiet, or if they can summon up the energy for a final nerve-shredding duel to avoid tiebreaks?

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Re: WC Match 2016 - New York 10-30 November

Post by Mick Norris » Fri Nov 25, 2016 9:34 am

Jonathan Tisdall excellent report and analysis; the brief video clip (in Urcan's tweet) of Karjakin is worth 1 minute and 11 seconds watching, says more than many words

TWIC

Chess Mind brief analysis

Game 11 on Saturday evening UK time
Game 12 is on Monday after another rest day

Players must both be knackered by now, given the length of some of the games, and the tension
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Joshua Gibbs
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Re: WC Match 2016 - New York 10-30 November

Post by Joshua Gibbs » Fri Nov 25, 2016 9:40 am

Mick Norris wrote: the brief video clip (in Urcan's tweet) of Karjakin is worth 1 minute and 11 seconds watching, says more than many words
This is the Tweet Mick means :)

https://twitter.com/OlimpiuUrcan/status ... 12?lang=en
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Re: WC Match 2016 - New York 10-30 November

Post by NickFaulks » Fri Nov 25, 2016 12:02 pm

Paolo Casaschi wrote:wondering if Kirsan really tried to board that plane or he just went to the airport after making sure he would not be allowed on board and make a big fuss about it.
I can only tell you what I am confident is the correct history of what happened. You can of course feel free to call me a liar.
Do you really think the US would place on the sanctions list someone whose wrongdoing is based on no other evidence than "some press cuttings"?
Yes I do, particularly if, as it appears, they are saying that themselves.
Why on earth would the US government pick on Kirsan?
My own dealings with the US Treasury, and those of people I know in Bermuda and Washington, suggest that they are highly amenable to lobbying. I have no information that Kasparov's Wall Street friends intervened on his behalf, but have little doubt that any such efforts would have had a good chance of success.

One of Bermuda's players almost missed the Dresden Olympiad because he arrived at the airport to discover that he was not allowed on the plane to New York and had to throw away his tickets for the entire trip. I played in a Sub-Zonal in Nassau where two top players were missing because they discovered too late that they were not allowed through Miami. Several others had bought more expensive tickets through Havana because of previous bad experiences. Yes, the US authorities are arbitrary and entirely unaccountable.

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Re: WC Match 2016 - New York 10-30 November

Post by Jonathan Bryant » Fri Nov 25, 2016 12:42 pm

Christopher Kreuzer wrote:This is really boring.
Seriously? I found the game really gripping. Have enjoyed the whole match too.

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Paolo Casaschi
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Re: WC Match 2016 - New York 10-30 November

Post by Paolo Casaschi » Fri Nov 25, 2016 1:03 pm

NickFaulks wrote:
Paolo Casaschi wrote:Do you really think the US would place on the sanctions list someone whose wrongdoing is based on no other evidence than "some press cuttings"?
Yes I do, particularly if, as it appears, they are saying that themselves.
If the only evidence supporting your last statement is the press conference of Kirsan then, while admitting my total ignorance, I hope you'll understand my unfounded personal skepticism about it. Maybe "as it appears" it's not the more precise terminology.
I'm really puzzled that in a dispute between the US treasury and a man that, as it appears, has friendship with aliens, that you seem to trust better the friend of the aliens...
NickFaulks wrote:My own dealings with the US Treasury, and those of people I know in Bermuda and Washington, suggest that they are highly amenable to lobbying. I have no information that Kasparov's Wall Street friends intervened on his behalf, but have little doubt that any such efforts would have had a good chance of success.
As a conspiracy theory, this is pretty much unbelievable. Lobbying in Washington? Sure. Lobbying in Washington at the US Treasury to pick on Kasparov's enemy in FIDE, long after the election lost by Kasparov? Yeah right...
NickFaulks wrote:One of Bermuda's players almost missed the Dresden Olympiad because he arrived at the airport to discover that he was not allowed on the plane to New York and had to throw away his tickets for the entire trip. I played in a Sub-Zonal in Nassau where two top players were missing because they discovered too late that they were not allowed through Miami. Several others had bought more expensive tickets through Havana because of previous bad experiences. Yes, the US authorities are arbitrary and entirely unaccountable.
It's their way to take back control of their own borders: their country their rules. Would you really blame them for that?

Still, if you follow their rules it's usually all good. You need to give them a reason to kick you out. Same as with many other countries, such as the UK, if you spend time on google you find all kind of stories about people rejected at the border or threaten with deportation for apparently silly reasons... anyway, what has this to do with Kirsan that in my very personal opinion wants to go to the US as much as Julian Assage wants to go to there (or to Sweden)?

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Christopher Kreuzer
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Re: WC Match 2016 - New York 10-30 November

Post by Christopher Kreuzer » Fri Nov 25, 2016 1:18 pm

Jonathan Bryant wrote:
Christopher Kreuzer wrote:This is really boring.
Seriously? I found the game really gripping. Have enjoyed the whole match too.
Indeed. I have too. It was just at that precise moment that a wave of ennui swept over me. Clearly it got to Karjakin as well, as he made that crucial mistake at about this time as well. :D

(Really, given that I had posted lots about the game and was clearly following it avidly, my comment about the game being boring should be taken as tongue-in-cheek. It soon livened up again, but during that period of shuffling pieces back and forth, it was very difficult to understand what was going on and how to judge the optimum placement of the pieces and how it makes a difference many moves later - clearly some players have a knack for this, but I doubt many 'ordinary' chess players do.)

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Re: WC Match 2016 - New York 10-30 November

Post by Mick Norris » Fri Nov 25, 2016 1:19 pm

Jonathan Bryant wrote:
Christopher Kreuzer wrote:This is really boring.
Seriously? I found the game really gripping. Have enjoyed the whole match too.
The main complaint about the match from my perspective is the time the games are live in the UK; I doubt I'll be able to follow any of game 11, which is a pity

The chess has been enjoyable, a really good struggle, possibly helped by Magnus not being in top form; I'm not interested in players bashing out 20 moves of theory, particularly in sharp lines that peter out to draws at move 30
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Re: WC Match 2016 - New York 10-30 November

Post by Mick Norris » Fri Nov 25, 2016 1:20 pm

Christopher Kreuzer wrote:
Jonathan Bryant wrote:
Christopher Kreuzer wrote:This is really boring.
Seriously? I found the game really gripping. Have enjoyed the whole match too.
Indeed. I have too. It was just at that precise moment that a wave of ennui swept over me. Clearly it got to Karjakin as well, as he made that crucial mistake at about this time as well. :D
Ok Chris, credit to you for putting Karjakin off :lol: Same again please
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Paolo Casaschi
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Re: WC Match 2016 - New York 10-30 November

Post by Paolo Casaschi » Fri Nov 25, 2016 1:49 pm

Jonathan Bryant wrote:
Christopher Kreuzer wrote:This is really boring.
Seriously? I found the game really gripping. Have enjoyed the whole match too.
I agree, the match is not boring at all. Some games are more intense than other but the chess24 commentators always make do with the game at hand for an entertaining display.

If you think any of this is boring, look back at some of the Karpov Kasparov quick draws, endlessly repeating with both colors the same quiet opening. For example, from the same match look how game 12, game 38, game 39 and game 42 reached the same position at move 16, with few more similar games in the same "Queen's Gambit Declined, Tartakower (Makagonov-Bondarevsky) System"... now even that wasn't really boring to me.
The main complain I have about this year match: it's too short!

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Re: WC Match 2016 - New York 10-30 November

Post by Matt Mackenzie » Fri Nov 25, 2016 2:03 pm

Or you could go back all the way to Capablanca-Alekhine in 1927 :)
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Re: WC Match 2016 - New York 10-30 November

Post by JustinHorton » Fri Nov 25, 2016 2:14 pm

Mick Norris wrote:
Jonathan Bryant wrote:
Christopher Kreuzer wrote:This is really boring.
Seriously? I found the game really gripping. Have enjoyed the whole match too.
The main complaint about the match from my perspective is the time the games are live in the UK
It's an hour later here: I've followed the last three games to about 1200, 1215 and 1230 respectively, but missed the denouement in each case. Dunno what I'll do on Monday.

Much more gripping than we had any right to expect. I guess the underdog taking the lead in the second half is always a bit like that. In some ways the most dramatic moment wasn't at the board at all though, but Carlsen leaving the press conference.

I don't listen to the commentaries but I do read many of the post-match reports and I think they've served us well with Jon Tisdall the pick of a very decent bunch (Chess Mind, Chess24, Chess.com, Chessbase) although I think he's fundamentally wrong about the demerits of computers. None of these services, though, seems particularly friendly to the smartphone user where their playthroughs are concerned.
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Re: WC Match 2016 - New York 10-30 November

Post by Jonathan Bryant » Fri Nov 25, 2016 2:15 pm

Christopher Kreuzer wrote: ... during that period of shuffling pieces back and forth, it was very difficult to understand what was going on and how to judge the optimum placement of the pieces and how it makes a difference many moves later - clearly some players have a knack for this, but I doubt many 'ordinary' chess players do.)
I’m sure you’re quite right - in your assessment of the game and your assessment of ordinary players’ skills.

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