WC Match 2016 - New York 10-30 November

Mick Norris · Post by **Mick Norris** » Sat Nov 12, 2016 11:52 am

Jonathan Rogers · Post by **Jonathan Rogers** » Sat Nov 12, 2016 11:56 am

Wins in game one are quite rare. The last time that White won* convincingly** in game one was probably Kasparov v Karpov back in 1985.

* Black won, with the Petroff of all openings, in Leko v Kramnik 2004

Unconvincing wins in the first game in Kramnik v Topalov 2006 and Kasparov v Short 1993

These latter games do of course suggest some settling down disadvantage for a new challenger: and Magnus too was wholly unconvincing in his very first game.

NickFaulks · Post by **NickFaulks** » Sat Nov 12, 2016 12:12 pm

Jonathan Rogers wrote: These latter games do of course suggest some settling down disadvantage for a new challenger

Early doors of course, but the current challenger appeared entirely settled.

Jonathan Bryant · Post by **Jonathan Bryant** » Sat Nov 12, 2016 12:18 pm

Is there any particular reason not to go Bxf6 on move 3? What do you gain by inserting e3 c5 first?

Jonathan Rogers · Post by **Jonathan Rogers** » Sat Nov 12, 2016 12:23 pm

Perhaps, the promise of Chigorin-type play. After ...c5 has been played, you know you can take on c5 and f6 and have the use of the d4 square for a knight, which is now quite unlikely to be kicked away by e6-e5, or the option of playing e3-e4 and exd5 in a position where Black will not want to recapture ...exd5.

Still not much, of course!

LawrenceCooper · Post by **LawrenceCooper** » Sat Nov 12, 2016 12:30 pm

Jonathan Bryant wrote:Is there any particular reason not to go Bxf6 on move 3? What do you gain by inserting e3 c5 first?

The only thing that I could think of was that white might not be so keen on the 3 Bxf6 exf6 line so he only wanted to take on f6 after c5 when black will probably take with the g pawn to avoid an IQP.

Roger de Coverly · Post by **Roger de Coverly** » Sat Nov 12, 2016 2:00 pm

LawrenceCooper wrote: The only thing that I could think of was that white might not be so keen on the 3 Bxf6 exf6 line so he only wanted to take on f6 after c5 when black will probably take with the g pawn to avoid an IQP.

Julian and others gave up playing 3. Bxf6 around 20 years ago. Hastings 1995-96 was something of a theme tournament for not playing Bxf6 whilst England v Hungary in (I think) the 1994 Olympiad featured two games where White took on move 3 and got very little.

Roger de Coverly · Post by **Roger de Coverly** » Sat Nov 12, 2016 2:44 pm

Jonathan Rogers wrote: It also, perhaps, explains something I was wondering about yesterday. In Kramnik's last match against a computer (where he allowed mate in one in game two) he had built up a very good/winning? position in game one (though drew). He did this from a queenless middlegame position with open c and d files, I think Black had doubled f pawns again, and where he (White) had bishop and knight v two bishops. The computer was criticised for not exchanging a bishop for knight to reach a dead drawn position. Kramnik then forced the exchange of bishops to leave himself knight v bishop and was much better.

This one presumably.

Jonathan Rogers · Post by **Jonathan Rogers** » Sat Nov 12, 2016 2:51 pm

Absolutely, thanks Roger. Seirwan criticised Black for not playing 18...Bxf3, and he seems to be right. And yes, white pawn on e2.

Jonathan Rogers · Post by **Jonathan Rogers** » Sat Nov 12, 2016 2:54 pm

Not important, but seeing Andreikin play in the ECC reminds me that we have (I think) seen the Trompowsky in a recent candidates event.

Paul Cooksey · Post by **Paul Cooksey** » Sat Nov 12, 2016 5:46 pm

An old one too; Korchnoi beat Karpov with the Tromp in the 74 candidates final that turned out to be for the title.

If I'm getting the annecdote right, Korchnoi said about the Anand-Karpov game Joshua quoted; "Karpov has learned nothing about the Trompovsky in 20 years"

Carl Hibbard · Post by **Carl Hibbard** » Sat Nov 12, 2016 7:02 pm

Tonight it's the YouTube application on an Apple TV.

Carl Hibbard · Post by **Carl Hibbard** » Sat Nov 12, 2016 7:26 pm

12 games is a bit quick so I'm hoping this doesn't become a snorefest.

Roger de Coverly · Post by **Roger de Coverly** » Sat Nov 12, 2016 7:27 pm

Paul Cooksey wrote: If I'm getting the annecdote right, Korchnoi said about the Anand-Karpov game Joshua quoted; "Karpov has learned nothing about the Trompovsky in 20 years"

Karpov got bashed at Hastings in the 1971-72 Premier as well, admittedly from a Torre move order. Hastings has a number of Tromp adverts to its credit, the game Vaganian - Botterill being another example.

Karpov's opinion on the Tromp was probably that it was a load of nonsense, therefore he didn't need to learn anything.

Matt Mackenzie · Post by **Matt Mackenzie** » Sat Nov 12, 2016 9:56 pm

Drawn.

Carlsen in even less bother with Black than Karjakin was yesterday.

Wonder if he will now try to press following tomorrow's rest day?

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WC Match 2016 - New York 10-30 November

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