87th FIDE Congress; FIDE's financial situation

The very latest International round up of English news.
Angus French
Posts: 1604
Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 1:37 am
Contact:

Re: 87th FIDE Congress; FIDE's financial situation

Post by Angus French » Mon Aug 08, 2016 11:37 am

Chess Vibes are indicating the proposal wasn't received in time.
Chess Vibes tweet wrote:Statutes: "Proposals (...) should reach the Secretariat not later than three months before the beginning of the GA."
It's perhaps worth mentioning that Ian Wilkinson who submitted the motion is a QC.

Chris Rice
Posts: 2769
Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2012 5:17 am

Re: 87th FIDE Congress; FIDE's financial situation

Post by Chris Rice » Mon Aug 08, 2016 12:02 pm

Well 'm no expert on FIDE statutes but the Jamaican motion looks poorly tabled to me. As I understand it pretty much as soon as the alien abductee appeared on the OFAC list he stepped down as acting FIDE President so in that sense the motion is a bit pointless. Also the Jamaicans seem to be under the mistaken assumption that appearing on the OFAC list, serious as that it, is the same as a conviction, which it certainly isn't. Also asking any politician, chess or otherwise, to step down over broken election promises is laughable, let alone someone with KI's track record of no moral integrity whatsoever. As for ruining FIDE's reputation I find it hard to believe it could get any lower.

Angus French
Posts: 1604
Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 1:37 am
Contact:

Re: 87th FIDE Congress; FIDE's financial situation

Post by Angus French » Fri Aug 26, 2016 10:09 pm

Peter Doggers has an interesting piece on FIDE's finances here.

Mick Norris
Posts: 7487
Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2007 10:12 am
Location: Bolton, Greater Manchester
Contact:

Re: 87th FIDE Congress; FIDE's financial situation

Post by Mick Norris » Sat Aug 27, 2016 10:09 am

Ok, but what is anyone going to actually do in practical terms?
Any postings on here represent my personal views and should not be taken as representative of the Manchester Chess Federation www.manchesterchess.co.uk

NickFaulks
Posts: 5075
Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2010 1:28 pm

Re: 87th FIDE Congress; FIDE's financial situation

Post by NickFaulks » Sat Aug 27, 2016 10:39 am

I'm sure the budgets for 2016 and 2017 will be discussed in some detail in Baku. I'm looking forward to that.

Peter's article is really just a rehash of Graham Boxall's Verification report, which has already been raked over. The sources of the past two years' misfortunes are clear enough and the question is where they are likely to recur. I hope the PB has had a sufficient scare that they will pay greater heed to the Treasurer in future.

Mick Norris
Posts: 7487
Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2007 10:12 am
Location: Bolton, Greater Manchester
Contact:

Re: 87th FIDE Congress; FIDE's financial situation

Post by Mick Norris » Sat Aug 27, 2016 10:52 am

So, the answer is nothing then

With the WCC in New York, will Agon be making money in the US? If so, will the US authorities allow them to pay the money to FIDE, given that Kirsan is President and on their sanctions list?
Any postings on here represent my personal views and should not be taken as representative of the Manchester Chess Federation www.manchesterchess.co.uk

NickFaulks
Posts: 5075
Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2010 1:28 pm

Re: 87th FIDE Congress; FIDE's financial situation

Post by NickFaulks » Sat Aug 27, 2016 11:15 am

Mick Norris wrote:So, the answer is nothing then
That is always going to be the extent of constructive comment on this forum.

I really do think that the budget figures are likely to be believable this year, and that there will be trouble if they are not. We shall see.

Chris Rice
Posts: 2769
Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2012 5:17 am

Re: 87th FIDE Congress; FIDE's financial situation

Post by Chris Rice » Sat Aug 27, 2016 12:08 pm

NickFaulks wrote:
Mick Norris wrote:So, the answer is nothing then
That is always going to be the extent of constructive comment on this forum.

I really do think that the budget figures are likely to be believable this year, and that there will be trouble if they are not. We shall see.
That the figures are believable is the one thing in FIDE's favour. That's the value of an auditor from Ernst & Young no matter who it is and how long the person has been doing the FIDE accounts. The real issue is that there is a complete systems and controls failure within the organisation. The President acts how he likes without fear of challenge from the puppets around him. For example, how many times has it been pointed out on this nonconstructive forum about the ridiculous amount of money the President spent on travel expenses, particularly for his re-election? The other examples that the accounts show indicate the President acts first and has no thought whatsoever on whether he's procedurally correct and no one does a thing. So Mick was quite right to say what he did above. Graham Boxall can do his verification reports as much as he likes but if he, or anyone else, effectively has no power to do anything about it he might as well say nothing.
I don't think it will happen but I would be fairly happy if FIDE went bankrupt. Hopefully that would mean another organisation could be set up to run world chess events properly.

NickFaulks
Posts: 5075
Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2010 1:28 pm

Re: 87th FIDE Congress; FIDE's financial situation

Post by NickFaulks » Sat Aug 27, 2016 12:42 pm

Chris Rice wrote: That the figures are believable is the one thing in FIDE's favour. That's the value of an auditor from Ernst & Young
What? They have nothing to do with the budget and would not have a clue.

Chris Rice
Posts: 2769
Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2012 5:17 am

Re: 87th FIDE Congress; FIDE's financial situation

Post by Chris Rice » Sat Aug 27, 2016 2:07 pm

NickFaulks wrote:
Chris Rice wrote: That the figures are believable is the one thing in FIDE's favour. That's the value of an auditor from Ernst & Young
What? They have nothing to do with the budget and would not have a clue.
You've lost me there. I'm simply saying the figures are believable or reasonably accurate because they have been audited properly. From these figures though we can deduce that FIDE not run with standards that would be acceptable to good corporate governance.

Chris Rice
Posts: 2769
Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2012 5:17 am

Re: 87th FIDE Congress; FIDE's financial situation

Post by Chris Rice » Sat Aug 27, 2016 2:08 pm

Chris Rice wrote:
NickFaulks wrote:
Chris Rice wrote: That the figures are believable is the one thing in FIDE's favour. That's the value of an auditor from Ernst & Young
What? They have nothing to do with the budget and would not have a clue.
You've lost me there. I'm simply saying the figures are believable or reasonably accurate because they have been audited properly. From these figures though we can deduce that FIDE is not run with standards that would be acceptable to good corporate governance.

NickFaulks
Posts: 5075
Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2010 1:28 pm

Re: 87th FIDE Congress; FIDE's financial situation

Post by NickFaulks » Sat Aug 27, 2016 2:47 pm

I'll try again.
NickFaulks wrote: I really do think that the budget figures are likely to be believable this year
I'm interested in the budget, looking ahead. The accounts show what has happened in the past, but we know that perfectly well. The signature of the auditors adds nothing but an audit fee.

Nick Grey
Posts: 1153
Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2011 12:16 am

Re: 87th FIDE Congress; FIDE's financial situation

Post by Nick Grey » Sat Aug 27, 2016 2:59 pm

Nick that is a rather strange comment that the auditors add nothing other than a fee. Any organisation of a certain size requires an external audit.
But please keep posting as you are taking the trouble to go to Baku & that is unlikely to be cheap.

Mike Truran
Posts: 2391
Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2007 3:44 pm
Contact:

Re: 87th FIDE Congress; FIDE's financial situation

Post by Mike Truran » Sat Aug 27, 2016 3:21 pm

Nick (G)

Auditors audit and express an opinion on the historical financial position (typically the year to the end of the most recent financial year end). They do not audit and express an opinion on on budgets. Your comment "That the figures are believable is the one thing in FIDE's favour. That's the value of an auditor......" was in direct response to Nick F's comment about "the budget figures are likely to be believable......".

Hence Nick F's reply.

Mike

Chris Rice
Posts: 2769
Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2012 5:17 am

Re: 87th FIDE Congress; FIDE's financial situation

Post by Chris Rice » Sat Aug 27, 2016 3:25 pm

NickFaulks wrote:I'll try again.
NickFaulks wrote: I really do think that the budget figures are likely to be believable this year
I'm interested in the budget, looking ahead. The accounts show what has happened in the past, but we know that perfectly well. The signature of the auditors adds nothing but an audit fee.
Ah I see, so if the President's lavish expenditure on travel expenses and pandering to the South Koreans had been more accurately budgeted for in advance you would have been OK with that? But the point is what can be done if the President decides to ignore his budgetry constraints which he has done repeatedly? Do you continually amend the budget for the following year to legitimise the overspending? Whether the budget figures are believable or not with the puppet heads at Baku all murmuring and nodding their approval is pretty irrelevant when nothing is done when the budget is breached by the President's latest big ideas for which no approval was sought or granted.

The income stream was an interesting aspect of the chess.com report. I continually asked Mr Paulson for a copy of the AGON accounts when he was at the helm but received nothing despite his protestations to me that everything was above board. Now AGON gets taken over by persons who were not involved with the contract initially and who are now saying that they make no money out of the events they cover and they appear to have an agreement in place with FIDE to legitimise this. So they pay nothing to FIDE and yet still retain the rights to cover major events. So when the budget figures for what AGON are going to contribute are entered just how believable are they going to be?

Post Reply