The very latest International round up of English news.
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Joshua Gibbs
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by Joshua Gibbs » Sun Jan 29, 2017 11:32 pm
David Robertson wrote:Joshua Gibbs wrote:great to see Mickey Adams play such a brutal game
The French Tarrasch with 3...c5 is the most savage
tabiya known to chess
The bloodbath incase anyone missed it
It madness to see Adams who is in his 40s cut up an-in form player like this.
Last edited by Joshua Gibbs on Mon Jan 30, 2017 1:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Roger de Coverly
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by Roger de Coverly » Sun Jan 29, 2017 11:45 pm
The sequence 1. e4 e6 2. d4 d5 3. Nd2 c5 4. exd5 Qxd5 5. dxc5 has been played before not least by Adams himself.
I cannot recall seeing it in any of the various books "How to beat the French", or indeed recall what is the "refutation" advocated by "Why the French is wonderful" books.
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Chris Rice
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by Chris Rice » Mon Jan 30, 2017 12:41 am
Roger de Coverly wrote:The sequence 1. e4 e6 2. d4 d5 3. Nd2 c5 4. exd5 Qxd5 5. dxc5 has been played before not least by Adams himself.
I cannot recall seeing it in any of the various books "How to beat the French", or indeed recall what is the "refutation" advocated by "Why the French is wonderful" books.
It's covered in
Playing the French by Aagard and Ntirlis but the resulting "Capablanca Structure" can arise out of the Caro Kann, Sicilian or Scandinavian so there is probably a lot of material but probably in other openings books. It may well have confused Wenjun Ju as 7...Be7 isn't considered optimum.
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Joshua Gibbs
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by Joshua Gibbs » Mon Jan 30, 2017 12:51 am
its mad she played this line.... Adams is very strong in it.
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Roger Lancaster
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by Roger Lancaster » Mon Jan 30, 2017 12:37 pm
Bit puzzled, isn't 5...Bxc5 regarded as a sounder line for black?
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LawrenceCooper
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by LawrenceCooper » Mon Jan 30, 2017 12:49 pm
Roger Lancaster wrote:Bit puzzled, isn't 5...Bxc5 regarded as a sounder line for black?
He mentioned that he thought it was a more normal move when going through the game with Jovanka.
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Graham Borrowdale
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by Graham Borrowdale » Mon Jan 30, 2017 12:53 pm
Roger Lancaster wrote:Bit puzzled, isn't 5...Bxc5 regarded as a sounder line for black?
Maybe, but
real French Defence players will play 3...Nf6. Still likely to get crushed by the likes of Adams of course, but will score the occasional win!
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Jonathan Rogers
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by Jonathan Rogers » Mon Jan 30, 2017 1:49 pm
Graham Borrowdale wrote:Roger Lancaster wrote:Bit puzzled, isn't 5...Bxc5 regarded as a sounder line for black?
Maybe, but
real French Defence players will play 3...Nf6. Still likely to get crushed by the likes of Adams of course, but will score the occasional win!
I'd have thought so, yes.
And I suspect that Adams' results actually do bear this out. I can only remember him once losing after 3...c5 in his life and that was when Black recaptured with exd5: see
http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1014121
against 4...Qxd5 I think his score is monstrous, and has been since he was a young teenager (I remember a miniature win v Karl Bowden in the second round round of the British in 1986). See too his win v Levitt:
http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1014372
Whereas I suspect his fortunes have been more mixed against 3...Nf6; he certainly had his losses in his junior days (Andrew Mack, Gary Quillan), though I expect he has done well overall.
This is based on my menory and observation - databases might prove me hopelessly wrong. Until someone tells me that this is the case though, I agree that it was a bad choice of opening by Ju Wenjun yesterday.
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Chris Rice
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by Chris Rice » Mon Jan 30, 2017 1:54 pm
LawrenceCooper wrote:Roger Lancaster wrote:Bit puzzled, isn't 5...Bxc5 regarded as a sounder line for black?
He mentioned that he thought it was a more normal move when going through the game with Jovanka.
It could be the Mickey wanted to encourage people to play 5...Bxc5. Aagard and Ntirlis have a problem with that move and I'll just briefly say why:
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Jonathan Rogers
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by Jonathan Rogers » Mon Jan 30, 2017 1:54 pm
pairings today include Cheparinov v Topalov (!). And both Adams and Hou Yifan have male opponents!!!
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LawrenceCooper
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by LawrenceCooper » Mon Jan 30, 2017 1:58 pm
Jonathan Rogers wrote:Graham Borrowdale wrote:Roger Lancaster wrote:Bit puzzled, isn't 5...Bxc5 regarded as a sounder line for black?
Maybe, but
real French Defence players will play 3...Nf6. Still likely to get crushed by the likes of Adams of course, but will score the occasional win!
I'd have thought so, yes.
And I suspect that Adams' results actually do bear this out. I can only remember him once losing after 3...c5 in his life and that was when Black recaptured with exd5: see
http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1014121
against 4...Qxd5 I think his score is monstrous, and has been since he was a young teenager (I remember a miniature win v Karl Bowden in the second round round of the British in 1986). See too his win v Levitt:
http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1014372
Whereas I suspect his fortunes have been more mixed against 3...Nf6; he certainly had his losses in his junior days (Andrew Mack, Gary Quillan), though I expect he has done well overall.
This is based on my menory and observation - databases might prove me hopelessly wrong. Until someone tells me that this is the case though, I agree that it was a bad choice of opening by Ju Wenjun yesterday.
He has +11=2 against 3...Nf6 in my database containing games since 2000
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Joshua Gibbs
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by Joshua Gibbs » Mon Jan 30, 2017 2:34 pm
Jonathan Rogers wrote:pairings today include Cheparinov v Topalov (!).
For the information of casual observers Cheparinov was Topalov's second up until 2007
Video on Short's excellent win against Caruana
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0I-scVCvGiA
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JustinHorton
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by JustinHorton » Mon Jan 30, 2017 3:12 pm
Graham Borrowdale wrote:Roger Lancaster wrote:Bit puzzled, isn't 5...Bxc5 regarded as a sounder line for black?
Maybe, but
real French Defence players will play 3...Nf6. Still likely to get crushed by the likes of Adams of course, but will score the occasional win!
Every time I sit next to a game in that line Black gets marmalised. I wouldn't touch it.
"Do you play chess?"
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."
lostontime.blogspot.com
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Jonathan Rogers
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by Jonathan Rogers » Mon Jan 30, 2017 3:53 pm
LawrenceCooper wrote:Jonathan Rogers wrote:Graham Borrowdale wrote:
Maybe, but real French Defence players will play 3...Nf6. Still likely to get crushed by the likes of Adams of course, but will score the occasional win!
I'd have thought so, yes.
And I suspect that Adams' results actually do bear this out. I can only remember him once losing after 3...c5 in his life and that was when Black recaptured with exd5: see
http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1014121
against 4...Qxd5 I think his score is monstrous, and has been since he was a young teenager (I remember a miniature win v Karl Bowden in the second round round of the British in 1986). See too his win v Levitt:
http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1014372
Whereas I suspect his fortunes have been more mixed against 3...Nf6; he certainly had his losses in his junior days (Andrew Mack, Gary Quillan), though I expect he has done well overall.
This is based on my menory and observation - databases might prove me hopelessly wrong. Until someone tells me that this is the case though, I agree that it was a bad choice of opening by Ju Wenjun yesterday.
He has +11=2 against 3...Nf6 in my database containing games since 2000
Not bad
though perhaps Morozevic would have been the only other world class player likely to play it against him?
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LawrenceCooper
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by LawrenceCooper » Mon Jan 30, 2017 4:04 pm
Jonathan Rogers wrote:LawrenceCooper wrote:Jonathan Rogers wrote:
I'd have thought so, yes.
And I suspect that Adams' results actually do bear this out. I can only remember him once losing after 3...c5 in his life and that was when Black recaptured with exd5: see
http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1014121
against 4...Qxd5 I think his score is monstrous, and has been since he was a young teenager (I remember a miniature win v Karl Bowden in the second round round of the British in 1986). See too his win v Levitt:
http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1014372
Whereas I suspect his fortunes have been more mixed against 3...Nf6; he certainly had his losses in his junior days (Andrew Mack, Gary Quillan), though I expect he has done well overall.
This is based on my menory and observation - databases might prove me hopelessly wrong. Until someone tells me that this is the case though, I agree that it was a bad choice of opening by Ju Wenjun yesterday.
He has +11=2 against 3...Nf6 in my database containing games since 2000
Not bad
though perhaps Morozevic would have been the only other world class player likely to play it against him?
Shirov & Gurevich(M) were the draws whilst Navara & Gurevich (M) were among the victims.