2018 World Championship in London

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Geoff Chandler
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Re: 2018 World Championship in London

Post by Geoff Chandler » Fri Nov 16, 2018 12:19 pm

If this stalemate equals win malarkey is made official then every endgame book will be obsolete.
I'm thinking it's just a con to force everyone to buy new endgame books.

(I have one......somewhere, I am not buying another!)

NickFaulks
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Re: 2018 World Championship in London

Post by NickFaulks » Fri Nov 16, 2018 2:49 pm

Geoff Chandler wrote:
Fri Nov 16, 2018 12:19 pm
If this stalemate equals win malarkey is made official then every endgame book will be obsolete.
Not just endgame books, Geoff. In today's world, opening books too.

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Christopher Kreuzer
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Re: 2018 World Championship in London

Post by Christopher Kreuzer » Fri Nov 16, 2018 3:20 pm

NickFaulks wrote:
Fri Nov 16, 2018 2:49 pm
Geoff Chandler wrote:
Fri Nov 16, 2018 12:19 pm
If this stalemate equals win malarkey is made official then every endgame book will be obsolete.
Not just endgame books, Geoff. In today's world, opening books too.
Speaking of which, 15 knight moves in the first 20 moves so far in game 6.

Mick Norris
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Re: 2018 World Championship in London

Post by Mick Norris » Fri Nov 16, 2018 4:23 pm

A proper opening at last :D
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Tim Harding
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Re: 2018 World Championship in London

Post by Tim Harding » Fri Nov 16, 2018 7:58 pm

Mick Norris wrote:
Fri Nov 16, 2018 4:23 pm
A proper opening at last :D
A proper endgame at last!
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Mick Norris
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Re: 2018 World Championship in London

Post by Mick Norris » Fri Nov 16, 2018 9:30 pm

Interesting draw
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Christopher Kreuzer
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Re: 2018 World Championship in London

Post by Christopher Kreuzer » Sat Nov 17, 2018 2:22 am

Just played through the game - was Caruana winning that at some point? Looks like it! (Though very difficult position, nearly impossible for a human to find that winning line, to quote Kasparov: "The computer shows Black wins with 68..Bh4 here. But had Caruana played the incredible 69.Bd5 Ne2 70.Bf3 Ng1!! they would request metal detectors immediately! No human can willingly trap his own knight like that.".) So psychologically they are level now, with a missed win apiece.

Chris Rice
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Re: 2018 World Championship in London

Post by Chris Rice » Sat Nov 17, 2018 6:36 am

Chess.com report Caruana Misses 'Impossible' Win where the line starting 68...Bh4 is played out to the finish.

"Yes, the Norwegian supercomputer "Sesse" announced mate in 30, but even top grandmaster commentators couldn't understand all the complexities of the missed opportunity."

"I am not going to disagree with the computers, I just don't understand it," Carlsen said after being informed that 68...Bh4 was the key.

Mark Crowther "I really don't have any clue about how to analyse and assess this position. None at all." Jonathan Tisdall "Well watch Grischuk and Svidler, and how they get confused. Sesse's lines don't make more sense. Grischuk has found the right ideas, they just can't keep working out how to achieve them by force."

Nick Ivell
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Re: 2018 World Championship in London

Post by Nick Ivell » Sat Nov 17, 2018 11:01 am

Perhaps it's time to reflect on the impact computers are having on the game.

It appears that Black is doing well out of the engine situation. White retains an inbuilt advantage; arguably it's one of the great weaknesses of our game, this inbuilt advantage (unlike snooker for example, where you'd better not try and pot a ball from the break-off). Computer preparation appears to be keeping Black well in the game. Increasingly players with White are aiming for the smallest of edges. I note with some amusement that I was playing the Italian game long before it became fashionable.

But openings bore me. The endgame is my great love. What would we have been saying 40 years ago about the draw we have just witnessed? We would have been praising White's brilliant defence. I venture to suggest that no one - not Tal, not Averbakh - would have come forward with the winning idea of knight self-immolation.

Magnus is the greatest endgame player of all time. I find it a kind of comfort that even he is unable to get to grips with what appear to be the simplest of positions. There is hope for all of us.

Richard Bates
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Re: 2018 World Championship in London

Post by Richard Bates » Sat Nov 17, 2018 1:07 pm

Nick Ivell wrote:
Sat Nov 17, 2018 11:01 am
Perhaps it's time to reflect on the impact computers are having on the game.

It appears that Black is doing well out of the engine situation. White retains an inbuilt advantage; arguably it's one of the great weaknesses of our game, this inbuilt advantage (unlike snooker for example, where you'd better not try and pot a ball from the break-off). Computer preparation appears to be keeping Black well in the game. Increasingly players with White are aiming for the smallest of edges. I note with some amusement that I was playing the Italian game long before it became fashionable.

But openings bore me. The endgame is my great love. What would we have been saying 40 years ago about the draw we have just witnessed? We would have been praising White's brilliant defence. I venture to suggest that no one - not Tal, not Averbakh - would have come forward with the winning idea of knight self-immolation.
Might have done. They had the advantages of adjournment analysis.

I would suggest this as an obvious parallel

http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1067288

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JustinHorton
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Re: 2018 World Championship in London

Post by JustinHorton » Sat Nov 17, 2018 1:16 pm

Nick Ivell wrote:
Sat Nov 17, 2018 11:01 am
Perhaps it's time to reflect on the impact computers are having on the game.
Yes, it's about time people turned their attention to this neglected topic
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Chris Rice
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Re: 2018 World Championship in London

Post by Chris Rice » Sat Nov 17, 2018 2:15 pm

More banter on Chess24:

Sopiko: "Would Kramnik help Magnus in the opening?"
Grischuk: "Magnus said himself of 3-4 years ago is his hero & Kramnik of 4-5 yrs ago could be extremely helpful. He needs a time machine!"
Svidler: "Don't we all. What do we want - time travel! When do we want it? It's irrelevant!"

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Carl Hibbard
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Re: 2018 World Championship in London

Post by Carl Hibbard » Sat Nov 17, 2018 2:30 pm

The whole Ng1 concept described here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XVowybk-GmE
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Brian Towers
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Re: 2018 World Championship in London

Post by Brian Towers » Sat Nov 17, 2018 3:32 pm

Chris Rice wrote:
Sat Nov 17, 2018 2:15 pm
Grischuk: "He needs a time machine!"
Svidler: "Don't we all. What do we want - time travel! When do we want it? It's irrelevant!"
Spoilsport Svidler gives away the proof that time travel will never be invented.
Ah, but I was so much older then. I'm younger than that now.

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JustinHorton
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Re: 2018 World Championship in London

Post by JustinHorton » Sat Nov 17, 2018 3:48 pm

By the same token, if it could be invented then it could never be invented since potentially at least it would always have existed.
"Do you play chess?"
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."

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