2017 World Cup 2-27 September, Tbilisi

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Roger de Coverly
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Re: 2017 World Cup 2-27 September, Tbilisi

Post by Roger de Coverly » Thu Sep 14, 2017 5:02 pm

NickFaulks wrote:Is there any way to claim 3x repetition in blitz? Nobody seems to know.
Didn't the authors of the latest version of the Laws of Chess put it in?

http://www.fide.com/fide/handbook.html? ... ew=article

Under the Appendix for Rapid chess
A.2 wrote: Players do not need to record the moves, but do not lose their rights to claims normally based on a scoresheet. The player can, at any time, ask the arbiter to provide him with a scoresheet, in order to write the moves.
Under the Appendix for Blitz chess
B.3.2 wrote:The player may at any time, when it is his move, ask the arbiter or his assistant to show him the scoresheet. This may be requested a maximum of five times in a game. More requests shall be considered as a distraction of the opponent.
B.4 wrote: Otherwise, play shall be governed by the Rapid chess Laws as in Article A.2 and A.4.
On the face of it, a player could rely on B.4 and A.2 to make such a claim, but it might be a complicated process to attempt with seconds on the clock. Disruptive to the flow of the game as well if the clocks have to be stopped to speak to the arbiter.

The existence of A.2 is presumably why you see arbiters writing the moves for Rapid and Blitz games they are supervising, even where there's a DGT board in use.
Last edited by Roger de Coverly on Thu Sep 14, 2017 5:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Matt Mackenzie
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Re: 2017 World Cup 2-27 September, Tbilisi

Post by Matt Mackenzie » Thu Sep 14, 2017 5:04 pm

Grischuk's rather blatant match tactics didn't work quite as well as in Kazan, then. Shame.
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Roger de Coverly
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Re: 2017 World Cup 2-27 September, Tbilisi

Post by Roger de Coverly » Thu Sep 14, 2017 5:06 pm

Jonathan Rogers wrote:But I should have thought that a maximum of one qualifier only from this cosy circle is enough.
If you are a commercial organisation that believes it can make money from the rights to broadcast tournaments containing the world's elite players, it may help if the rules are framed to require or entice the world's elite to participate.

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JustinHorton
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Re: 2017 World Cup 2-27 September, Tbilisi

Post by JustinHorton » Thu Sep 14, 2017 5:10 pm

Christopher Kreuzer wrote:
JustinHorton wrote:Grischuk going out is bad news for anybody who might have hoped third place in the Grand Prix might be good enough. Potentially that was quite a few players.
Ding Liren is still in it, so if he qualifies by this route (World Cup), and then takes second or first in the Grand Prix, that is another (albeit unlikely) scenario where third place comes into play again.
Ah, good point, though what I would have said had I been thinking straight is that it's now restricted to people who can overtake at least one of the two present leaders.
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Alex Holowczak
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Re: 2017 World Cup 2-27 September, Tbilisi

Post by Alex Holowczak » Thu Sep 14, 2017 11:24 pm

Jonathan Rogers wrote:The Grand Prix strikes me as the odd one out in this circus. It isn't exactly entirely composed purely of potential contenders, after all, so why it is a separate qualifying route? (But ratings and World Cup, one understands - anyone can try to qualify or to win as many rated games as possible).

Not that I have given it much thought, and am not trying to take the thread pages off topic. But I should have thought that a maximum of one qualifier only from this cosy circle is enough.
I guess you need ways of getting the number of qualifiers up to 8 for the Candidates somehow, so multiple routes are desirable.

I enjoy the World Cup more than any of the other top events, and it certainly seems to have captured the imagination more than the Grand Prix Swisses. I can't see it being an annual event though, due to various constraints in the calendar and the qualifying events.

I wonder if the Grand Prix events could be mini World Cups. 16 players, but the same format as a World Cup. The 8 highest-rated players get invited to be part of the series. If they decline, go down the ratings until you get 8. Have 8 wildcards - Agon seems to like selling wildcards. Maybe a healthy mix of wildcards from the host country, or ACP tour standings, or something like that. So a 16-player KO in the World Cup format, which would take a fortnight, similar in length to the Swisses. It'd be more flexible for the top players, who don't need to play in every Grand Prix in this format; and for the organisers, who could hold any number of Grands Prix in their series without the rigidity of needing 4 for the format to work.

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Re: 2017 World Cup 2-27 September, Tbilisi

Post by Chris Rice » Fri Sep 15, 2017 12:34 am

Peter Doggers reports on the tie breaks in Round 4.

Svidler (2756) - Bu Xiangzhi (2714) 3-1

Svidler is always deferential and at times seems to be to portray himself as a high class rabbit, but the truth is that he is sheer class. He won both the rapid games against Bu today. "The first was played reasonably well by both of us," said Svidler, who thought that he could have won easier. When Bu had little time on the clock, Svidler could bring him out of balance by playing moves that his opponent probably didn't look at." On the second game Svidler commented: ""He's an extremely strong classical player. His forte is playing correctly, you know, putting the pieces on good squares and doing this, the basics, very, very well. But he had to play for a win as Black, he mixed up and missed a tactical short very early. He missed Ne4-g5."

Vachier-Lagrave (2804) - Grischuk (2788) 3½-2½

Another epic match. The first 10 + 10 game was a win for MVL and it was a thing of beauty. The second was another tablebase win miss nightmare for Grischuk, who, even with his speed skills couldn't work the bloody thing out under the increment.

Ivanchuk (2727) - Giri (2777) 1½-½
Dubov (2666) - Aronian (2802) ½-1½
So (2792) - Jobava (2702) ½-1½

Tough match and So was a bit lucky yesterday.

Rodshtein (2695) - Fedoseev (2731) 1-3

I was surprised to see Fedoseev lose the second game yesterday but he reckoned he pinpointed what went wrong and adapted today " "I should always play for a win. If I change my style I have a problem."

Rapport (2675) - Najer (2694) 2½-1½

Best summed up with the Tisdall quote: "Rapport and Najer have just stood in the center of the ring and punched each other non-stop for three days now."

Wang Hao (2701) - Ding Liren (2771) ½-1½

More analysis on the round from Chess Mind

The quarter final line up features 8 players from 7 different countries:

Svidler v MVL
Ivanchuk v Aronian
So v Fedoseev
Rapport v Ding Liren

I really would like Svidler, Ivanchuk, Fedoseev and Rapport to progress but I suspect they will all go out next round and we'll end up with MVL, Aronian, So and Ding as a pretty powerful last four. Hope I'm wrong.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: 2017 World Cup 2-27 September, Tbilisi

Post by Roger de Coverly » Fri Sep 15, 2017 12:58 am

Chris Rice wrote: On the second game Svidler commented: ""He's an extremely strong classical player. His forte is playing correctly, you know, putting the pieces on good squares and doing this, the basics, very, very well. But he had to play for a win as Black, he mixed up and missed a tactical short very early. He missed Ne4-g5."


With a pawn on f7, the pattern that .. h6 can be met by Nxf7 is easy to see. Perhaps not so easy when the pawn isn't on its rightful square.

Svidler restrained from Great Bu's down references.


John Hickman
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Re: 2017 World Cup 2-27 September, Tbilisi

Post by John Hickman » Fri Sep 15, 2017 5:41 am

Roger de Coverly wrote:
Svidler restrained from Great Bu's down references.
Bu who

Chris Rice
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Re: 2017 World Cup 2-27 September, Tbilisi

Post by Chris Rice » Fri Sep 15, 2017 8:35 am

John Hickman wrote:
Roger de Coverly wrote:
Svidler restrained from Great Bu's down references.
Bu who
I was thinking a few days ago its a shame Bu-Hou (Yifan) never happened.

Mick Norris
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Re: 2017 World Cup 2-27 September, Tbilisi

Post by Mick Norris » Fri Sep 15, 2017 9:17 am

I was looking at a visually useful summary on TWIC

Seed Name vs Seed Name
16 Svidler, Peter 8 Vachier-Lagrave, Maxime
29 Ivanchuk, Vassily 5 Aronian, Levon
2 So, Wesley 26 Fedoseev, Vladimir
51 Rapport, Richard 11 Ding, Liren

and contrasting that with the current live ratings on 2700chess which would give

14 v 3
24 v 2
8 v 23
57 v 11

Although those are classical ratings, and account should be taken of rapid and blitz ratings I guess

I don't think all 4 of MVL, Aronian, So and Ding will get through
Any postings on here represent my personal views and should not be taken as representative of the Manchester Chess Federation www.manchesterchess.co.uk

Chris Rice
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Re: 2017 World Cup 2-27 September, Tbilisi

Post by Chris Rice » Fri Sep 15, 2017 9:23 am

Big ChessBase article by Sagar Shah, half of it on the monster MVL-Grischuk match. We're getting some superb training in fortresses during this tournament.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: 2017 World Cup 2-27 September, Tbilisi

Post by Roger de Coverly » Fri Sep 15, 2017 9:24 am

Mick Norris wrote: 51 Rapport, Richard 11 Ding, Liren

57 v 11
Rapport the only remaining player from outside the world top 50. But he's known as a very creative if erratic player.

NickFaulks
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Re: 2017 World Cup 2-27 September, Tbilisi

Post by NickFaulks » Fri Sep 15, 2017 9:38 am

Roger de Coverly wrote:Rapport the only remaining player from outside the world top 50. But he's known as a very creative if erratic player.
And he was #16 a year ago.


LawrenceCooper
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Re: 2017 World Cup 2-27 September, Tbilisi

Post by LawrenceCooper » Fri Sep 15, 2017 12:54 pm

Rapport-Ding drawn in 11. Possibly influenced by Rapport playing yesterday whilst Ding had a rest day?

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