2017 World Cup 2-27 September, Tbilisi

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NickFaulks
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Re: 2017 World Cup 2-27 September, Tbilisi

Post by NickFaulks » Wed Sep 27, 2017 12:56 pm

As I said about an earlier game, when Aronian's good he is very good.
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Richard Bates
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Re: 2017 World Cup 2-27 September, Tbilisi

Post by Richard Bates » Wed Sep 27, 2017 1:31 pm

Christopher Kreuzer wrote:
Nick Burrows wrote:These arrangements are the norm in poker tournaments.
Really? The players privately even out disparities in prize monies? Why?
The big secret is that poker players don't like gambling ;)

In relation to chess, I would guess that the danger is that it might cause trouble with the taxman.

LawrenceCooper
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Re: 2017 World Cup 2-27 September, Tbilisi

Post by LawrenceCooper » Wed Sep 27, 2017 1:47 pm

LawrenceCooper wrote:
MartinCarpenter wrote:Ropey position anyway but taking h5 really was a bit overly brave :)
1-0 after what looked like some Aronian prep that caught Ding out and insufficient time to try and navigate his way through the complications.
Looking at the clock times and position in game 2 make uncomfortable viewing for Aronian fans (after move 21).

Geoff Chandler
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Re: 2017 World Cup 2-27 September, Tbilisi

Post by Geoff Chandler » Wed Sep 27, 2017 1:52 pm

"Does it actually say anywhere that the World Champion isn't eligible to compete in the Candidates"

Drop this....please.

At chessgames.com it went on and on and on for months...it still is.

Common sense tells you Carlsen cannot play in the candidates,
He is the Champion so he cannot be a candidate but there is nothing in writing.

Don't even look for it, a couple of lawyers across there have
spent hours on it looking at every FIDE rule they can find.

Apparently if Carlsen wants too he can play in the candidates.
People are convinced he can and should!

Drop it - forget it - you will go insane and friendships forged
over many years will be shattered.

Well done Lawrence, I'll even forgive you for a lack of diagram.
Change the subject. Stick to the game. Do not let this Carlsen
in the candidates take a firm hold. It will be the end of the site.

Geoff Chandler
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Re: 2017 World Cup 2-27 September, Tbilisi

Post by Geoff Chandler » Wed Sep 27, 2017 1:58 pm

"Ropey position anyway but taking h5 really was a bit overly brave"

Ding here played 26...Qxh5.

Good now I've seen a move from this final.

Richard Bates
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Re: 2017 World Cup 2-27 September, Tbilisi

Post by Richard Bates » Wed Sep 27, 2017 2:00 pm

Geoff Chandler wrote:"Does it actually say anywhere that the World Champion isn't eligible to compete in the Candidates"

Drop this....please.

At chessgames.com it went on and on and on for months...it still is.

Common sense tells you Carlsen cannot play in the candidates,
He is the Champion so he cannot be a candidate but there is nothing in writing.

Don't even look for it, a couple of lawyers across there have
spent hours on it looking at every FIDE rule they can find.

Apparently if Carlsen wants too he can play in the candidates.
People are convinced he can and should!

Drop it - forget it - you will go insane and friendships forged
over many years will be shattered.

Well done Lawrence, I'll even forgive you for a lack of diagram.
Change the subject. Stick to the game. Do not let this Carlsen
in the candidates take a firm hold. It will be the end of the site.
Says the person who has just replied to a post on page 1 of a 62 page thread! ;)

Roger de Coverly
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Re: 2017 World Cup 2-27 September, Tbilisi

Post by Roger de Coverly » Wed Sep 27, 2017 2:01 pm

LawrenceCooper wrote: Looking at the clock times and position in game 2 make uncomfortable viewing for Aronian fans (after move 21).
He seems to have turned it round though.





This seems to be a critical position, where Ne8f6 can be played immediately. The idea is that after the piece is captured, you retake with the g pawn hitting the Bishop on e5. If that retreats you regain the piece by playing .. f5 .

As it was, he played .. Kh8 first. That would have been bad according to stockfish if Deng had played 23 Qd2 or 23 Qc1 instead of a Bishop retreat. If Black cuts out the h6 check by playing .. Kh7, then in the forking combination, Ng5 is check, so the piece isn't regained.

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Christopher Kreuzer
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Re: 2017 World Cup 2-27 September, Tbilisi

Post by Christopher Kreuzer » Wed Sep 27, 2017 2:05 pm

Geoff will like this position:



White to move. Ding blundered and Aronian is about to win.

LawrenceCooper
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Re: 2017 World Cup 2-27 September, Tbilisi

Post by LawrenceCooper » Wed Sep 27, 2017 2:10 pm

Yes 0-1 after Ding missed black can play 32....Kg7 and doesn't have to exchange rooks first. Aronian wins the World Cup.

LawrenceCooper
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Re: 2017 World Cup 2-27 September, Tbilisi

Post by LawrenceCooper » Wed Sep 27, 2017 2:14 pm

Roger de Coverly wrote:
LawrenceCooper wrote: Looking at the clock times and position in game 2 make uncomfortable viewing for Aronian fans (after move 21).
He seems to have turned it round though.





This seems to be a critical position, where Ne8f6 can be played immediately. The idea is that after the piece is captured, you retake with the g pawn hitting the Bishop on e5. If that retreats you regain the piece by playing .. f5 .

As it was, he played .. Kh8 first. That would have been bad according to stockfish if Deng had played 23 Qd2 or 23 Qc1 instead of a Bishop retreat. If Black cuts out the h6 check by playing .. Kh7, then in the forking combination, Ng5 is check, so the piece isn't regained.
Yes, that looked one of the critical moments. At the time I was thinking how clever Ding had been in reaching a position where black's best option involved a temporary piece sacrifice but carried some risk. A move later it seemed a worse version with the black king on the h file but the g file came in very handy for his rook.

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Matt Mackenzie
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Re: 2017 World Cup 2-27 September, Tbilisi

Post by Matt Mackenzie » Wed Sep 27, 2017 2:17 pm

LawrenceCooper wrote:Yes 0-1 after Ding missed black can play 32....Kg7 and doesn't have to exchange rooks first. Aronian wins the World Cup.
Well deserved :)
"Set up your attacks so that when the fire is out, it isn't out!" (H N Pillsbury)

Mick Norris
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Re: 2017 World Cup 2-27 September, Tbilisi

Post by Mick Norris » Wed Sep 27, 2017 2:23 pm

Yes, Aronian has played best in the final, so well done repeating his win of 2005
Any postings on here represent my personal views

Alistair Campbell
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Re: 2017 World Cup 2-27 September, Tbilisi

Post by Alistair Campbell » Wed Sep 27, 2017 3:08 pm

Richard Bates wrote:
Christopher Kreuzer wrote:
Nick Burrows wrote:These arrangements are the norm in poker tournaments.
Really? The players privately even out disparities in prize monies? Why?
The big secret is that poker players don't like gambling ;)

In relation to chess, I would guess that the danger is that it might cause trouble with the taxman.
Essentially you have 2 players playing "Winner Takes All" for $40,000. One may wish to alter the risk/reward profile. If two wish that, you may have the makings of a deal.

The tax treatment is an interesting point. Off topic, I suspect MPs and MSPs and so on who donate "unwanted" salary increases or income from second jobs to charity, still incur a tax liability.

John McKenna

Re: 2017 World Cup 2-27 September, Tbilisi

Post by John McKenna » Wed Sep 27, 2017 3:17 pm

Stewart has been milling around in chess circles since before The Beatles cut their first record. He will know of a few cases where this has happened. It's up to him if he supplies names and dates (no reason to we know it has happened).
Hi Geoff, returning to lowering the tone, here's a report of one that predates even Stewart's long experience of gentlemen's dubious arrangements -
Szen opened his match against Anderssen with infinitely more skill than he exhibited in the concluding games. It subsequently transpired (we feel bound in honesty to mention this, but with much regret; it was an unbecoming arrangement) that a compromise was effected in the middle of the contest that, if either player were fortunate enough to gain the first prize, he should pay one-third of its amount to the other. Whether this arrangement had any effect on the after-play of the Hungarian [Szen] it is impossible to say... (Howard Staunton The Chess Tournament - London 1851)
That great mother-of-all tournaments was also a mini-match knockout.

Kevin Thurlow
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Re: 2017 World Cup 2-27 September, Tbilisi

Post by Kevin Thurlow » Wed Sep 27, 2017 3:34 pm

I was told years ago that a little group of strong players toured the weekend Swisses, with an arrangement they would split the prize money whatever happened. This gave them the confidence to play very aggressively in the last round against each other, knowing that a loss was not a disaster, and obviously a win was very beneficial. A quick draw might let others catch up or even overtake them.

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