5th Sinquefield Cup 2-12 August 2017

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Roger de Coverly
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Re: 5th Sinquefield Cup 2-12 August 2017

Post by Roger de Coverly » Thu Aug 10, 2017 7:49 pm

NickFaulks wrote: You have said that a number of times, but have never produced one. Until you do I shall doubt their existence.
Here's a discussion on the subject

https://www.chess.com/forum/view/chess9 ... -for-white

LawrenceCooper
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Re: 5th Sinquefield Cup 2-12 August 2017

Post by LawrenceCooper » Thu Aug 10, 2017 9:34 pm

Aronian-Svidler was drawn in 19 moves and Anand-MVL in 30 moves.

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Re: 5th Sinquefield Cup 2-12 August 2017

Post by NickFaulks » Thu Aug 10, 2017 9:54 pm

LawrenceCooper wrote:Aronian-Svidler was drawn in 19 moves.
9.Be2 was a "new move", but it looks as though both players' computers had analysed it to a draw.
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LawrenceCooper
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Re: 5th Sinquefield Cup 2-12 August 2017

Post by LawrenceCooper » Thu Aug 10, 2017 10:11 pm

NickFaulks wrote:
LawrenceCooper wrote:Aronian-Svidler was drawn in 19 moves.
9.Be2 was a "new move", but it looks as though both players' computers had analysed it to a draw.
In the after game interviews neither side seemed completely happy with their play. Aronian was regretting trying f4 but not too concerned by the lines where black could grab on g2 whilst Svidler had been intending to dodge the repetition with Bh7 but then decided it wasn't good. MVL appears to have made the biggest gain of the round with white against Nepo to finish.

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Re: 5th Sinquefield Cup 2-12 August 2017

Post by LawrenceCooper » Thu Aug 10, 2017 10:25 pm

Carlsen has now drawn to remain half behind the leaders.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: 5th Sinquefield Cup 2-12 August 2017

Post by Roger de Coverly » Thu Aug 10, 2017 10:42 pm

NickFaulks wrote: 9.Be2 was a "new move", but it looks as though both players' computers had analysed it to a draw.


You don't seem to be able to play .. g6 in any position without some line with h4 being important.

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Matt Mackenzie
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Re: 5th Sinquefield Cup 2-12 August 2017

Post by Matt Mackenzie » Fri Aug 11, 2017 12:03 am

So loses again.
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LawrenceCooper
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Re: 5th Sinquefield Cup 2-12 August 2017

Post by LawrenceCooper » Fri Aug 11, 2017 7:54 am

GM Carlsen, M. (4½) 2822— — GM Aronian, L. (5) 2799
GM Vachier-Lagr. (5) 2789— — GM Nepomniachtc. (3) 2751
GM So, Wesley (2½) 2810— — GM Anand, V. (5) 2783
GM Nakamura, H. (3) 2792— — GM Karjakin, S. (4½) 2773
GM Svidler, P. (3½) 2751— — GM Caruana, F. (4) 2807

Chris Rice
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Re: 5th Sinquefield Cup 2-12 August 2017

Post by Chris Rice » Fri Aug 11, 2017 9:37 am

Matt Mackenzie wrote:So loses again.
Now down to World no 8.

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Re: 5th Sinquefield Cup 2-12 August 2017

Post by NickFaulks » Fri Aug 11, 2017 11:03 am

Chris Rice wrote:2700+
Perhaps this is worthy of a new thread, but when you put these players in age order, it stands out that there are 17 players in the age range 30-34, zero in 35-39 and then eight in 40+.

You have to be careful with statistics, since by definition unlikely things do happen, but this still seems to point to some kind of a missing generation. Any possible reasons? All I can think of is that their early professional careers were blighted by the almost universal application of G/90, so they never got to play properly.
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Re: 5th Sinquefield Cup 2-12 August 2017

Post by JustinHorton » Fri Aug 11, 2017 11:53 am

NickFaulks wrote:
Chris Rice wrote:2700+
Perhaps this is worthy of a new thread
Yes
NickFaulks wrote:but when you put these players in age order, it stands out that there are 17 players in the age range 30-34, zero in 35-39 and then eight in 40+.

You have to be careful with statistics, since by definition unlikely things do happen, but this still seems to point to some kind of a missing generation. Any possible reasons? All I can think of is that their early professional careers were blighted by the almost universal application of G/90, so they never got to play properly.
Which players are we potentially thinking of?
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JustinHorton
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Re: 5th Sinquefield Cup 2-12 August 2017

Post by JustinHorton » Fri Aug 11, 2017 11:55 am

LawrenceCooper wrote:GM Carlsen, M. (4½) 2822— — GM Aronian, L. (5) 2799
GM Vachier-Lagr. (5) 2789— — GM Nepomniachtc. (3) 2751
GM So, Wesley (2½) 2810— — GM Anand, V. (5) 2783
GM Nakamura, H. (3) 2792— — GM Karjakin, S. (4½) 2773
GM Svidler, P. (3½) 2751— — GM Caruana, F. (4) 2807
I am guessing Anand and MVL will both be happy enough if they can take relatively early draws and see what happens in the glamour pairing.
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Roger de Coverly
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Re: 5th Sinquefield Cup 2-12 August 2017

Post by Roger de Coverly » Fri Aug 11, 2017 12:01 pm

NickFaulks wrote: Perhaps this is worthy of a new thread, but when you put these players in age order, it stands out that there are 17 players in the age range 30-34, zero in 35-39 and then eight in 40+.
You are thinking of the gap between Svidler and Aronian.

If you sort the FIDE August list by year of birth, the relevant range is

 

Code: Select all

16	 Svidler, Peter	 g	 RUS	 2751	 9	 1976
 40	 Almasi, Zoltan	 g	 HUN	 2707	 0	 1976
 56	 Nisipeanu, Liviu-Dieter	 g	 GER	 2687	 16	 1976
 99	 Papaioannou, Ioannis	 g	 GRE	 2652	 10	 1976
 39	 Najer, Evgeniy	 g	 RUS	 2707	 9	 1977
 60	 Sutovsky, Emil	 g	 ISR	 2683	 0	 1977
 73	 Morozevich, Alexander	 g	 RUS	 2675	 0	 1977
 69	 Movsesian, Sergei	 g	 ARM	 2677	 0	 1978
 66	 Leko, Peter	 g	 HUN	 2678	 0	 1979
 70	 Kasimdzhanov, Rustam	 g	 UZB	 2676	 0	 1979
 71	 Motylev, Alexander	 g	 RUS	 2675	 9	 1979
 47	 Malakhov, Vladimir	 g	 RUS	 2696	 13	 1980
 64	 Moiseenko, Alexander	 g	 UKR	 2678	 13	 1980
 54	 Sasikiran, Krishnan	 g	 IND	 2688	 0	 1981
 5	 Aronian, Levon	 g	 ARM	 2799	 9	 1982
You've got both Morozevich and Leko in there as well as a former FIDE World Champion.
NickFaulks wrote: All I can think of is that their early professional careers were blighted by the almost universal application of G/90, so they never got to play properly.
I would have thought all of these players were established GMs several years before Kirsan started his obsession with faster time controls. British players will recall Morozevich winning the final Lloyds Bank in 1994 shortly after DGTs were first introduced. Sasikiran played in the 1997 British in Hove.

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Re: 5th Sinquefield Cup 2-12 August 2017

Post by Paul Cooksey » Fri Aug 11, 2017 12:59 pm

Polgar is the other big name player that jumps out from a rating list from 10 years ago. But still many players born before and after the early 80s have retired fully or partially. I think Nick's observation is standing up, if not necessarily his theory to explain it.

I tried to create a theory of it being a disadvantage to be at a critical point of your career during the transition from the pre-computer to the computer age in the early 21st century. It sounded plausible, but I couldn't really make the dates work.

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Re: 5th Sinquefield Cup 2-12 August 2017

Post by Richard Bates » Fri Aug 11, 2017 1:21 pm

Paul Cooksey wrote:Polgar is the other big name player that jumps out from a rating list from 10 years ago. But still many players born before and after the early 80s have retired fully or partially. I think Nick's observation is standing up, if not necessarily his theory to explain it.

I tried to create a theory of it being a disadvantage to be at a critical point of your career during the transition from the pre-computer to the computer age in the early 21st century. It sounded plausible, but I couldn't really make the dates work.
These things can usually be traced back to money. Both in a positive sense (is chess, and particularly playing chess, an attractive career) and a negative sense (how attractive are the non-chess alternatives?). Although I'm surprised you can't make the dates work for computers (not necessarily in a "disadvantage" sense but just in a "game is changing and I still have a chance to get out sense") I would suggest this was the last generation for whom computer databases were an "optional extra" as juniors.

How do you use the damn things properly...? ;)