Candidates Tournament in Berlin March 2018

The very latest International round up of English news.
Geoff Chandler
Posts: 2001
Joined: Mon Jul 06, 2009 1:36 pm
Location: Under Cover
Contact:

Re: Candidates Tournament in Berlin March 2018

Post by Geoff Chandler » Mon Sep 18, 2017 3:48 pm

Hi Matt,

I speak my mind, if people read disrespect into it fair enough.

But what has that to do with anything. Do you agree or not agree?

Do you agree with what I say but not how I said it.

Or do you disagree and mainly appalled how I said it.

I'm not happy that he (in this case Kramnik) may be sneaking in the back door due to rating.

I know he has a few health issues but he has not really been active in the past year.
A couple of safe (grading wise should he lose one) tournaments.

Of course he played the game of the year so far, to me anyway, v Harikrishna at the Gashimov Memorial.

where was I..... Oh Yeah ratings.

You maintain your high rating by playing people who have maintained theirs.
He's getting into the candidates on the backs of others at the expense of others.

Use the rating to get into a qualifying event OK. But to use it to give them
another shot at getting into the candidates when they have failed is 'iffy'.

A former World Champion.
Yes but he never qualified via any candidates to play in any of his four World Title matches.

Once as an invite from Kasparov, Once defending his invited title, once in the unification match
and once, after taking part in and not winning the 2007 World Championship Tournament he got
another match v Anand via a hastily cobbled together rule akin to the Botvinnik Law.

(to be honest I don't know what any of that that has to with it, but Matt brought it up)

I'm not in favour of ratings being used to go straight in the candidates no matter who it is.

Today I just happen to pick on Kramnik as an example.

I also know FIDE do not care a jot what I think, I'm just stamping my feet.

Manchester United get knocked out the F.A Cup in round one but get invited into ¼ final because
they have won it before and play and draw with Arsenal, Spurs, Chelsea, Liverpool etc. week in week out?

(FIDE will read this. Kramnik won't qualify and they will make him the nominee just to cheer me up.)

Mick Norris
Posts: 7436
Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2007 10:12 am
Location: Bolton, Greater Manchester
Contact:

Re: Candidates Tournament in Berlin March 2018

Post by Mick Norris » Mon Sep 18, 2017 4:05 pm

To qualify by rating, you have to play at least 30 games in the 12 month period of the rating list, so no-one can sit on their rating

As well as the 9 games he played in December which counted towards his January rating, Vlad had played 29 rated games before the World Cup where he played another 6; he's also playing in the Isle of Man, which will be another 9 rated games

If So beats Ding in the WC semi, then both Kramnik & Caruana are almost certain to qualify by rating, and I'd be very happy to see them both do so
Any postings on here represent my personal views and should not be taken as representative of the Manchester Chess Federation www.manchesterchess.co.uk

NickFaulks
Posts: 5047
Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2010 1:28 pm

Re: Candidates Tournament in Berlin March 2018

Post by NickFaulks » Mon Sep 18, 2017 4:09 pm

During the past twelve months Kramnik has played 60 standard rated games, against 2750 average opposition, scoring 35 points. While not as active as some players, this is not just sitting on his rating.

User avatar
Christopher Kreuzer
Posts: 7277
Joined: Fri Aug 06, 2010 2:34 am
Location: London

Re: Candidates Tournament in Berlin March 2018

Post by Christopher Kreuzer » Mon Sep 18, 2017 4:18 pm

Out of interest, who is the most active of the world's top players (say, over the past year)? I can see the figures for monthly activity, but how do you get yearly activity? Do you have to add up 12-months-worth of games or is an annual figure given somewhere?

Geoff Chandler
Posts: 2001
Joined: Mon Jul 06, 2009 1:36 pm
Location: Under Cover
Contact:

Re: Candidates Tournament in Berlin March 2018

Post by Geoff Chandler » Mon Sep 18, 2017 4:26 pm

Hi Mick,


" you have to play at least 30 games in the 12 month period of the rating list,

I'm not too sure about that. As I read it the number of games played does not figure.

"The top two players with the highest rating (by the average of all 12 lists in 2017), who do not qualify via
one of the above, and who have played in either World Cup or Grand Prix."

'...one of the above' is, last beaten finalist and the qualifiers from the Grand Prix or World Cup.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Che ... nship_2018

Reading that it is possible to sit on a grade.

Kramnik had to play in the Grand Prix or the World Cup so he chose the World Cup.

Too many games increases the chances of slip up in the Grand Prix.
(The lad is not daft, crafty yes, but certainly not daft and he's not the only superstar who ducked the Grand Pirx)

But Kramnik and number of games aside, is getting into the candidates on rating alone fair.

You appear to think so if it's Kramnik and Caruana would that be the same if it were any other players.

User avatar
JustinHorton
Posts: 6367
Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2008 10:06 am
Location: Somewhere you're not

Re: Candidates Tournament in Berlin March 2018

Post by JustinHorton » Mon Sep 18, 2017 4:27 pm

Geoff Chandler wrote: Manchester United get knocked out the F.A Cup in round one
Pop quiz: when did Manchester United last play in the first round of the FA Cup?
"Do you play chess?"
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."

lostontime.blogspot.com

NickFaulks
Posts: 5047
Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2010 1:28 pm

Re: Candidates Tournament in Berlin March 2018

Post by NickFaulks » Mon Sep 18, 2017 4:34 pm

Christopher Kreuzer wrote: Do you have to add up 12-months-worth of games?
Unless you're one of the people who downloads the monthly ratings data in spreadsheet form and knows how to manipulate them, then yes.

Jonathan Rogers
Posts: 3862
Joined: Tue Nov 18, 2008 9:26 pm

Re: Candidates Tournament in Berlin March 2018

Post by Jonathan Rogers » Mon Sep 18, 2017 4:36 pm

John McKenna wrote:When Karpov became World Champion in April 1975 he vowed to be an active one, unlike his predecessor. True to his word, in July 1974 he (rated 2700) played the following opponents in the Nice Olympiad A-qualifier group -

1. Craig Pritchett (2350, Scotland & sometimes of this parish)
2. N.E. Zalm (unrated, Ned. Antillies)
3. Suhail Al Mallah (unrated, Jordan)
4. Wlodzimierz Schmidt (2500, Poland)
5. A. Howard Williams (2405, Wales)

As you might expect Karpov made a clean sweep (his total for the whole event: +10, =4, -0) with Craig lasting longest in terms of moves - thirty-nine and a half.

In the A-final group the lowest rated player to get a result against Karpov was none other than W. "Bill" Hartston (2480, Eng.) a draw - a clear pawn up - in exactly 40 moves each.
He was playing for his country! Something which, given his status in USSR at the time, he could hardly refuse to do.

The open tournament in Germany seems to be his only known case of voluntarily entering an open event where he could face much lower rated players (and I'd like to know more about the German tournament before saying even that).

(You can tell when Karpov played a much weaker opponent: he would be Black and meet 1 e4 with 1...c5).

User avatar
JustinHorton
Posts: 6367
Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2008 10:06 am
Location: Somewhere you're not

Re: Candidates Tournament in Berlin March 2018

Post by JustinHorton » Mon Sep 18, 2017 4:40 pm

Jonathan Rogers wrote:(You can tell when Karpov played a much weaker opponent: he would be Black and meet 1 e4 with 1...c5).
Used to be fond of it earlier in his career, though. Played the Taimanov against Larsen as late as 1977.
Last edited by JustinHorton on Mon Sep 18, 2017 4:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Do you play chess?"
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."

lostontime.blogspot.com

Geoff Chandler
Posts: 2001
Joined: Mon Jul 06, 2009 1:36 pm
Location: Under Cover
Contact:

Re: Candidates Tournament in Berlin March 2018

Post by Geoff Chandler » Mon Sep 18, 2017 4:41 pm

Hi Justin,

Could be 2000 when Man Utd did not even get to the first round.

Kevin Thurlow
Posts: 2933
Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2008 12:28 pm

Re: Candidates Tournament in Berlin March 2018

Post by Kevin Thurlow » Mon Sep 18, 2017 4:42 pm

"Pop quiz: when did Manchester United last play in the first round of the FA Cup?"

Their first FA Cup match was in Round 1 in 1886, but they were called Newton Heath then. FC United of Manchester have played in it recently!

For the uninitiated, teams from the top two divisions are exempted until Round 3. Geoff is in Scotland of course, so may not know that.

To stay a bit on topic, selecting people on rating is better than just having wildcards.

User avatar
JustinHorton
Posts: 6367
Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2008 10:06 am
Location: Somewhere you're not

Re: Candidates Tournament in Berlin March 2018

Post by JustinHorton » Mon Sep 18, 2017 4:43 pm

Geoff Chandler wrote:Hi Justin,

Could be 2000 when Man Utd did not even get to the first round.
I think their last game in the first round was on 10 January 1925, when they lost 2-0 to The Wednesday (not yet, then, Sheffield Wednesday) away from home.
"Do you play chess?"
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."

lostontime.blogspot.com

Geoff Chandler
Posts: 2001
Joined: Mon Jul 06, 2009 1:36 pm
Location: Under Cover
Contact:

Re: Candidates Tournament in Berlin March 2018

Post by Geoff Chandler » Mon Sep 18, 2017 4:49 pm

Hi Justin,

I'll take you word for it. (What was the Orient score on that day ).

BTW have a slender lead on the 'Funeral in Berlin' waiting a chap getting back to me.

A lot of people saying they have looked and did a bit of sleuthing but nothing to report other than that.

" Geoff is in Scotland of course, so may not know that."

Geoff knew this but used Round one in error.
Last edited by Geoff Chandler on Mon Sep 18, 2017 4:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
JustinHorton
Posts: 6367
Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2008 10:06 am
Location: Somewhere you're not

Re: Candidates Tournament in Berlin March 2018

Post by JustinHorton » Mon Sep 18, 2017 4:52 pm

Geoff Chandler wrote: What was the Orient score on that day )
Went down at Forest one to nothing.
"Do you play chess?"
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."

lostontime.blogspot.com

User avatar
Christopher Kreuzer
Posts: 7277
Joined: Fri Aug 06, 2010 2:34 am
Location: London

Re: Candidates Tournament in Berlin March 2018

Post by Christopher Kreuzer » Mon Sep 18, 2017 4:54 pm

I have a vague memory of a strong impression that when the rating period that counted for this qualification route began, that Caruana had a relatively high rating (2827) and appeared to sit on that rating (or a similar one) for the first four months of the year.

2827, 2827, 2817, 2817 for Caruana at the start of the qualifying period.

2811, 2811, 2811, 2811, 2811 for Kramnik at the start of the qualifying period.

It was always going to be difficult for anyone to catch them after that. Though Wesley So has come closest with his surge into the 2820s during the qualifying period. Aronian and MVL never really looked like catching them, which makes their semi-final in the World Cup the only chance either has to get into the Candidates Tournament (absent wildcards).

The differing attitude of So and MVL to the Candidates qualification is interesting. So does not appear to be that bothered at the prospect of falling at the final hurdle if things go wrong against Ding Liren, saying that there are other tournaments that are just as important. MVL, in contrast, appears to really want to play in what would be his first Candidates tournament.

I do hope the wildcard is one of the losing semi-finalists.

Post Reply