2017 King Salman World Rapid and Blitz Chess Championships, Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, 26-30 December 2017

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Matt Mackenzie
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Re: 2017 King Salman World Rapid and Blitz Chess Championships, Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, 26-30 December 2017

Post by Matt Mackenzie » Wed Jan 17, 2018 10:48 pm

NickFaulks wrote:
Mon Jan 15, 2018 11:34 pm
LawrenceCooper wrote:
Mon Jan 15, 2018 5:39 pm
The speech included racist statements against my wife @GMzhuchen & an assault on Qatar, which is considered to be a breach of the sports ethical principles & Fide status.
Is there any record of these offensive statements?
I presume not, then?
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Chris Rice
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Re: 2017 King Salman World Rapid and Blitz Chess Championships, Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, 26-30 December 2017

Post by Chris Rice » Wed Jan 17, 2018 11:35 pm

Matt Mackenzie wrote:
Wed Jan 17, 2018 10:48 pm
NickFaulks wrote:
Mon Jan 15, 2018 11:34 pm
LawrenceCooper wrote:
Mon Jan 15, 2018 5:39 pm
The speech included racist statements against my wife @GMzhuchen & an assault on Qatar, which is considered to be a breach of the sports ethical principles & Fide status.
Is there any record of these offensive statements?
I presume not, then?
Can't find anything official but this article from the London correspondent, Anthony Harwood of the Times of Saudia gives a good idea of why the Qataris were so upset.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: 2017 King Salman World Rapid and Blitz Chess Championships, Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, 26-30 December 2017

Post by Roger de Coverly » Wed Jan 17, 2018 11:58 pm

NickFaulks wrote:
Mon Jan 15, 2018 11:34 pm
Is there any record of these offensive statements?
Not one made by FIDE. The piece linked by Chris Rice seems to suggest that it happened.

The ECF managed to find common ground between the President, the CEO and the International Director. Were they aware of this additional issue?

NickFaulks
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Re: 2017 King Salman World Rapid and Blitz Chess Championships, Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, 26-30 December 2017

Post by NickFaulks » Thu Jan 18, 2018 1:09 am

Chris Rice wrote:
Wed Jan 17, 2018 11:35 pm
Can't find anything official but this article from the London correspondent, Anthony Harwood of the Times of Saudia gives a good idea of why the Qataris were so upset.
Even if this person's remarks were accurately reported, as they may have been, I'm still struggling to find the racist attack upon Zhu Chen.
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Chris Rice
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Re: 2017 King Salman World Rapid and Blitz Chess Championships, Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, 26-30 December 2017

Post by Chris Rice » Tue Jul 24, 2018 7:41 pm

Looks like the 2018 edition is going to be cancelled according to FIDE's 2nd Quarter report. Ian Rogers tweets "From FIDE's 2nd quarter report report it looks as if the 2018 World Rapid and Blitz Championships will be cancelled. Saudi must agree to provide visas for all by mid-Sep or it's over. Of course a Dubai 1986 and Libya 2004-style promise and renege is possible."

NickFaulks
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Re: 2017 King Salman World Rapid and Blitz Chess Championships, Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, 26-30 December 2017

Post by NickFaulks » Tue Jul 24, 2018 9:39 pm

My guess is that the opposite is true, and this is an attempt to give the Saudi Federation leverage to obtain confirmation from their government that the visas will be granted. Of course, it may fail.

I thought it was always known that Israel would be excluded from Dubai 1986.
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Stewart Reuben
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Re: 2017 King Salman World Rapid and Blitz Chess Championships, Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, 26-30 December 2017

Post by Stewart Reuben » Tue Jul 24, 2018 9:58 pm

Nick >I thought it was always known that Israel would be excluded from Dubai 1986.<
When the vote was taken about Dubai 1986, it was indeed known that Israel would be excluded. Israel Gelfer publicly wished the event well. I always thought there was a sort of logic to the whole matter. The Olympiad had been organised in Israel some years before and, of course, several Arabic countries would not play. 22 years ago it was far more difficult to find a host country.
Jonathan Mestel said he would not go, but wished the English team well if they did compete. Had he been wholly against it, Jon Speelman wouldn't have played and nor would England.

Ian Rogers
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Re: 2017 King Salman World Rapid and Blitz Chess Championships, Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, 26-30 December 2017

Post by Ian Rogers » Tue Jul 24, 2018 10:18 pm

When making the bid for the 1986 Olympiad, the Dubai organisers were, according to Campomanes, going to make every effort and would likely succeed in arranging visas for Israel if they wanted to play. By the time the bid was voted on, those assurances were known to be baseless.
Libya 2004 and Saudi 2017 were in some ways similar. Both events eventually granted visas to a country they had banned, but too late for the players to compete under equal conditions with the other players.

NickFaulks
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Re: 2017 King Salman World Rapid and Blitz Chess Championships, Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, 26-30 December 2017

Post by NickFaulks » Wed Jul 25, 2018 8:08 am

Ian Rogers wrote:
Tue Jul 24, 2018 10:18 pm
By the time the bid was voted on, those assurances were known to be baseless.
Surely that's the point. It was, in my view wrongly, approved anyway. I do not believe that can happen this time ( assuming of course that Makro is elected ).
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Ian Rogers
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Re: 2017 King Salman World Rapid and Blitz Chess Championships, Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, 26-30 December 2017

Post by Ian Rogers » Wed Jul 25, 2018 4:21 pm

My point was not that FIDE should approve an event without visas offered for Qataris, Israelis, etc, but rather that Agon/FIDE has made no attempt to find an alternative venue given that these problems have been known for a year. Therefore a popular event (both with players and chess fans) is going to be cancelled outright.

NickFaulks
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Re: 2017 King Salman World Rapid and Blitz Chess Championships, Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, 26-30 December 2017

Post by NickFaulks » Wed Jul 25, 2018 11:25 pm

Ian Rogers wrote:
Wed Jul 25, 2018 4:21 pm
Therefore a popular event (both with players and chess fans) is going to be cancelled outright.
You wish, but as yet that isn't clear. If the Saudis cannot make the required commitments by mid September then FIDE will have to look elsewhere, and the position will be the same as it was at a similar stage last year, when it was belatedly accepted that Agon had blown out.

The reason the event is so popular with the players can be measured by its prize fund. Given that nobody currently in view is likely to match the Saudis, it must make sense to persevere with them.
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Ian Rogers
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Re: 2017 King Salman World Rapid and Blitz Chess Championships, Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, 26-30 December 2017

Post by Ian Rogers » Thu Jul 26, 2018 7:04 am

Nick, you are wrong that FIDE will look elsewhere if the Saudis cannot provide visas for all. The FIDE minutes clearly state that in that case the event will be cancelled. This is what shocked me - having no fallback plan for a problem known about for a year.

Chris Rice
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Re: 2017 King Salman World Rapid and Blitz Chess Championships, Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, 26-30 December 2017

Post by Chris Rice » Thu Jul 26, 2018 8:03 am

Ian Rogers wrote:
Thu Jul 26, 2018 7:04 am
Nick, you are wrong that FIDE will look elsewhere if the Saudis cannot provide visas for all. The FIDE minutes clearly state that in that case the event will be cancelled. This is what shocked me - having no fallback plan for a problem known about for a year.
Yes I'm at a loss to see what isn't clear to Nick:

"2PB-2018/18. To approve that if there is no clear answer by 15th September that visas are provided to all, the recommendation to the GA will be that FIDE will not organise World Rapid and Blitz and World Women Rapid and Blitz this year."

LawrenceCooper
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Re: 2017 King Salman World Rapid and Blitz Chess Championships, Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, 26-30 December 2017

Post by LawrenceCooper » Thu Jul 26, 2018 8:40 am

Chris Rice wrote:
Thu Jul 26, 2018 8:03 am
Ian Rogers wrote:
Thu Jul 26, 2018 7:04 am
Nick, you are wrong that FIDE will look elsewhere if the Saudis cannot provide visas for all. The FIDE minutes clearly state that in that case the event will be cancelled. This is what shocked me - having no fallback plan for a problem known about for a year.
Yes I'm at a loss to see what isn't clear to Nick:

"2PB-2018/18. To approve that if there is no clear answer by 15th September that visas are provided to all, the recommendation to the GA will be that FIDE will not organise World Rapid and Blitz and World Women Rapid and Blitz this year."
Nick is probably far more knowledgeable than the rest of us on FIDE. Whilst we may take their statement at face value he may have more insight into what they actually mean. The threat to cancel altogether may be a bluff to try and force the Saudi's hand. It remains to be seen who will be in charge in FIDE to clear up the mess.

Chris Rice
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Re: 2017 King Salman World Rapid and Blitz Chess Championships, Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, 26-30 December 2017

Post by Chris Rice » Thu Jul 26, 2018 8:56 am

LawrenceCooper wrote:
Thu Jul 26, 2018 8:40 am
Nick is probably far more knowledgeable than the rest of us on FIDE. Whilst we may take their statement at face value he may have more insight into what they actually mean. The threat to cancel altogether may be a bluff to try and force the Saudi's hand. It remains to be seen who will be in charge in FIDE to clear up the mess.
I don't doubt that Nick is more knowledgeable about FIDE affairs Loz but I was just looking for clarification on what he meant such as "that maybe what FIDE put out but its not what's going to happen in practice". As it stands the decision to recommend the cancellation of the event if the Saudis don't provide the necessary assurances looks crystal clear from the minutes.

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