2017 King Salman World Rapid and Blitz Chess Championships, Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, 26-30 December 2017

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Nick Ivell
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Re: 2017 King Salman World Rapid and Blitz Chess Championships, Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, 26-30 December 2017

Post by Nick Ivell » Sat Dec 30, 2017 10:31 pm

Thank you David. My sentiments exactly, trenchantly expressed.

And I do think your final words are a concern. We have other threads which talk about attracting young people to the game. I was attracted to the game because of the brilliance of Fischer. He played chess in a certain style. I'm not remotely saying that Carlsen is objectively weaker than Fischer. The opposite is true.

What I am saying is that I would not be attracted to chess by watching Carlsen. His brand of chess is very much for the connoisseur. But to be a connoisseur, you have to be attracted to the game in the first place!

I've seen enough of Carlsen's games to worry if he's going to attract young people to the game.

Steven DuCharme
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Re: 2017 King Salman World Rapid and Blitz Chess Championships, Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, 26-30 December 2017

Post by Steven DuCharme » Sun Dec 31, 2017 3:03 am

Which brings to mind Euwe's quote about Lasker "It is not possible to learn much from him. One can only stand and wonder"
I float like a pawn island and sting like an ignored knight :mrgreen:

David Sedgwick
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Re: 2017 King Salman World Rapid and Blitz Chess Championships, Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, 26-30 December 2017

Post by David Sedgwick » Tue Jan 02, 2018 6:18 pm

LawrenceCooper wrote:
Fri Dec 29, 2017 9:03 pm
Interview with Malcolm Pein https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_jOxikH23Uw
NickFaulks wrote:
Fri Dec 29, 2017 9:09 pm
Not entirely on message with
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/12 ... pionships/
They seem to have reached a consensus.

http://www.englishchess.org.uk/press-re ... ry-2-2018/

John McKenna

Re: 2017 King Salman World Rapid and Blitz Chess Championships, Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, 26-30 December 2017

Post by John McKenna » Tue Jan 02, 2018 6:47 pm

NickFaulks wrote:
Sat Dec 30, 2017 9:37 pm
Nick Ivell wrote:
Sat Dec 30, 2017 7:17 pm
The politics is (are?) so much more interesting than the chess.
I must say that I found the chess exceptionally interesting, but the politics may be of greater long term significance...

SNIP

... The two points on which almost everyone in the chess world ( possibly excluding St Louis, Sutovsky and the ECF ) now seem to be agreed are

1. Next year's event in Riyadh will include the Israelis, who will get their visas well in advance, and
2. If they don't, it will not take place there.

I don't see how anyone can now back away from that position.
Your attempt to "pontificate" from "... almost everyone in the chess world..." to "anyone" (backsliding) has the potential to fall down due to the Israelis not being there next time - thanks to Trump's bridge bombing - and the event still being held there - owing to the on-going works of Mammon.

NickFaulks
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Re: 2017 King Salman World Rapid and Blitz Chess Championships, Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, 26-30 December 2017

Post by NickFaulks » Tue Jan 02, 2018 7:19 pm

David Sedgwick wrote:
Tue Jan 02, 2018 6:18 pm
They seem to have reached a consensus.
Which is precisely Malcolm's earlier position, and the opposite of Dominic's.
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NickFaulks
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Re: 2017 King Salman World Rapid and Blitz Chess Championships, Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, 26-30 December 2017

Post by NickFaulks » Tue Jan 02, 2018 7:24 pm

John McKenna wrote:
Tue Jan 02, 2018 6:47 pm
Your attempt to "pontificate" from "... almost everyone in the chess world..." to "anyone" (backsliding)
As has happened before, I find it difficult to divine the meaning of your words. Can one backslide from a position one never held ( although in the ECF's case it appears that they do now hold it )?
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Chris Rice
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Re: 2017 King Salman World Rapid and Blitz Chess Championships, Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, 26-30 December 2017

Post by Chris Rice » Wed Jan 03, 2018 11:32 pm

Day 2 of the blitz featured another interesting incident.

"In the game Grischuk-Mamedyarov, the Russian GM was an exchange down, but at some point stopped the clock and claimed a draw by threefold repetition. The board arbiter didn't see a threefold, and ordered the players to continue the game. Grischuk ended up losing, and then checked again. To his great surprise, he saw that not a threefold, but a fourfold repetition had occurred.

After telling the chief arbiter, the game was declared a draw. Mamedyarov appealed against the chief arbiter's decision, arguing that he had already won the game and the forms were signed. This caused another delay for the last round, but eventually, his appeal was rejected by the Appeals Committee, who probably reasoned that once a correct claim has been made, this ends the game and everything that happens afterward is irrelevant."

The game is featured towards the bottom of the Final Day report from Peter Doggers.

NickFaulks
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Re: 2017 King Salman World Rapid and Blitz Chess Championships, Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, 26-30 December 2017

Post by NickFaulks » Thu Jan 04, 2018 1:13 am

Chris Rice wrote:
Wed Jan 03, 2018 11:32 pm
This caused another delay for the last round, but eventually, his appeal was rejected by the Appeals Committee, who probably reasoned that once a correct claim has been made, this ends the game and everything that happens afterward is irrelevant."
I like that conclusion, but wish Grischuk had explicitly had the right to play on "under protest", meaning that if his claim had been found after the game was over to have been correct ( not difficult to establish at leisure with electronic boards ), the game would have been declared drawn however it had continued. I do not believe this possibility currently exists.
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Stewart Reuben
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Re: 2017 King Salman World Rapid and Blitz Chess Championships, Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, 26-30 December 2017

Post by Stewart Reuben » Thu Jan 04, 2018 6:45 am

The way it is written it seems as if what had happened was eventually checked with the computer showing the moves on a sensory board.
Why not do that when the first claim was made?
Anyway it gave the Appeal Committee something to do.

Alex Holowczak
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Re: 2017 King Salman World Rapid and Blitz Chess Championships, Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, 26-30 December 2017

Post by Alex Holowczak » Thu Jan 04, 2018 10:01 am

Stewart Reuben wrote:
Thu Jan 04, 2018 6:45 am
The way it is written it seems as if what had happened was eventually checked with the computer showing the moves on a sensory board.
Why not do that when the first claim was made?
Apparently, the arbiter did, but made the wrong decision.

Angus French
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Re: 2017 King Salman World Rapid and Blitz Chess Championships, Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, 26-30 December 2017

Post by Angus French » Thu Jan 04, 2018 10:40 am

David Sedgwick wrote:
Tue Jan 02, 2018 6:18 pm
LawrenceCooper wrote:
Fri Dec 29, 2017 9:03 pm
Interview with Malcolm Pein https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_jOxikH23Uw
NickFaulks wrote:
Fri Dec 29, 2017 9:09 pm
Not entirely on message with
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/12 ... pionships/
They seem to have reached a consensus.

http://www.englishchess.org.uk/press-re ... ry-2-2018/
The press release David refers to reads:
ECF press release wrote:King Salman Rapid and Blitz World Chess Championships

The English Chess Federation regrets the absence of Israeli players from the King Salman Rapid and Blitz World Chess Championships staged in Riyadh last month. Visas for Israeli players were requested, but not issued by the Saudi authorities. This was not in accordance with FIDE’s motto, ‘Gens Una Sumus’

The ECF calls on FIDE to issue an unequivocal statement that future representative events will not be staged in Saudi Arabia, or in any country which refuses to allow players from Israel or any other federation to participate.

— Dominic Lawson, President | Mike Truran, Chief Executive | Malcolm Pein, Director of International Chess and FIDE Delegate
I think the Directors have a point. But:

1. Weren't players of other federations - Qatar and Iran spring to mind - also affected, either not receiving visas, receiving them late or being disinclined to enter because of the location of the event?

2. What about the matter of Saudi Arabia leading a coalition which a) is bombing - and has bombed for several years - civilian populations in Yemen, resulting in thousands of civilian deaths (see here for a recent report); and b) recently blockaded Yemeni ports preventing humanitarian aid getting through, resulting in a cholera epidemic and widespread starvation? Presumably this, also, is not accordance with FIDE's motto 'Gens Una Sumas'.

NickFaulks
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Re: 2017 King Salman World Rapid and Blitz Chess Championships, Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, 26-30 December 2017

Post by NickFaulks » Thu Jan 04, 2018 11:46 am

Angus French wrote:
Thu Jan 04, 2018 10:40 am
2. What about the matter of Saudi Arabia leading a coalition which a) is bombing - and has bombed for several years - civilian populations in Yemen, resulting in thousands of civilian deaths
Such arguments can be used to justify not going anywhere. When the West sells the Saudis these bombs, what do we think they're going to do with them?
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Michael Farthing
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Re: 2017 King Salman World Rapid and Blitz Chess Championships, Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, 26-30 December 2017

Post by Michael Farthing » Thu Jan 04, 2018 9:40 pm

NickFaulks wrote:
Thu Jan 04, 2018 11:46 am
Angus French wrote:
Thu Jan 04, 2018 10:40 am
2. What about the matter of Saudi Arabia leading a coalition which a) is bombing - and has bombed for several years - civilian populations in Yemen, resulting in thousands of civilian deaths
Such arguments can be used to justify not going anywhere. When the West sells the Saudis these bombs, what do we think to do with them?
And indeed I would heartily argue that bombs should not be sold to Saudi Arabia. You seem to be suggesting, Nick, that they should??

Alex Holowczak
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Re: 2017 King Salman World Rapid and Blitz Chess Championships, Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, 26-30 December 2017

Post by Alex Holowczak » Thu Jan 04, 2018 10:14 pm

Michael Farthing wrote:
Thu Jan 04, 2018 9:40 pm
NickFaulks wrote:
Thu Jan 04, 2018 11:46 am
Angus French wrote:
Thu Jan 04, 2018 10:40 am
2. What about the matter of Saudi Arabia leading a coalition which a) is bombing - and has bombed for several years - civilian populations in Yemen, resulting in thousands of civilian deaths
Such arguments can be used to justify not going anywhere. When the West sells the Saudis these bombs, what do we think to do with them?
And indeed I would heartily argue that bombs should not be sold to Saudi Arabia. You seem to be suggesting, Nick, that they should??
Wow, that's a leap. How did you get to that conclusion?

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Michael Farthing
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Re: 2017 King Salman World Rapid and Blitz Chess Championships, Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, 26-30 December 2017

Post by Michael Farthing » Thu Jan 04, 2018 10:35 pm

Oh! It didn't seem a leap to me. Have I misunderstood Nick? If so I certainly apologise.