2017 King Salman World Rapid and Blitz Chess Championships, Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, 26-30 December 2017

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Paul Cooksey
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Re: 2017 King Salman World Rapid and Blitz Chess Championships, Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, 26-30 December 2017

Post by Paul Cooksey » Sun Nov 12, 2017 12:30 am

No country has a blameless history and most not even a blameless present. But the comparison is confusing politics with the suitability of the venue for the players. We would not be having this discussion if the event was in the US.

Phil Neatherway
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Re: 2017 King Salman World Rapid and Blitz Chess Championships, Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, 26-30 December 2017

Post by Phil Neatherway » Sun Nov 12, 2017 7:44 pm

No country has a blameless history/present ... but some are more blameless than others.

NickFaulks
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Re: 2017 King Salman World Rapid and Blitz Chess Championships, Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, 26-30 December 2017

Post by NickFaulks » Sun Nov 12, 2017 9:17 pm

Paul Cooksey wrote:
Sun Nov 12, 2017 12:30 am
We would not be having this discussion if the event was in the US.
That is no doubt true. This is the English Chess Forum, and the fact that players from a large number of less important federations could never get visas would be thought of little significance.
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Jonathan Bryant
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Re: 2017 King Salman World Rapid and Blitz Chess Championships, Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, 26-30 December 2017

Post by Jonathan Bryant » Mon Nov 13, 2017 10:27 am

NickFaulks wrote:
Sun Nov 12, 2017 9:17 pm
Paul Cooksey wrote:
Sun Nov 12, 2017 12:30 am
We would not be having this discussion if the event was in the US.
That is no doubt true. This is the English Chess Forum, and the fact that players from a large number of less important federations could never get visas would be thought of little significance.
That would depend on the poster, I would suggest

Roger de Coverly
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Re: 2017 King Salman World Rapid and Blitz Chess Championships, Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, 26-30 December 2017

Post by Roger de Coverly » Mon Nov 13, 2017 10:46 am

Jonathan Bryant wrote:
Mon Nov 13, 2017 10:27 am
That would depend on the poster, I would suggest
According to FIDE, Nigel is the first to sign up.

http://www.fide.com/component/content/a ... ation.html

That's notwithstanding
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/ ... rand-mufti

Leon Watson in the Telegraph

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/11 ... p-players/

This reveals that Jovanka won't be going.

Leon Watson in Telegraph wrote: England's top female player, Jovanka Houska, told chess.com: "I definitely wouldn’t play in Saudi Arabia. I imagine the event will probably be very well run, so safety probably wouldn’t be an issue."

But she added: "I really don’t feel comfortable visiting a country where I would need to be accompanied by a male guardian.

"It goes against my principles and I am sure my rebellious side would get me into trouble! Fide need to be transparent about how they choose their venues."

Paul Cooksey
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Re: 2017 King Salman World Rapid and Blitz Chess Championships, Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, 26-30 December 2017

Post by Paul Cooksey » Mon Nov 13, 2017 12:50 pm

NickFaulks wrote:
Sun Nov 12, 2017 9:17 pm
Paul Cooksey wrote:
Sun Nov 12, 2017 12:30 am
We would not be having this discussion if the event was in the US.
That is no doubt true. This is the English Chess Forum, and the fact that players from a large number of less important federations could never get visas would be thought of little significance.
This is not a team event where all countries should be treated equally, is it? I think it matters how it impacts top players, not the rank and file. I would consider whether a venue acceptable to Russian players is far more important than one acceptable to English players, to clarify.

I'm not actually suggesting FIDE organises a tournament in Crimea, although given their track record probably only a matter of time.

NickFaulks
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Re: 2017 King Salman World Rapid and Blitz Chess Championships, Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, 26-30 December 2017

Post by NickFaulks » Mon Nov 13, 2017 4:33 pm

Paul Cooksey wrote:
Mon Nov 13, 2017 12:50 pm
This is not a team event where all countries should be treated equally, is it? I think it matters how it impacts top players, not the rank and file.
I considered that and it is a fair point, although many here would in other circumstances insist that it's the principle of the thing. In any case, how many players on this list would fail to get a US visa, particularly in six weeks? I think a lot. Much has been made here of the suggestion that an Iranian player will be denied entry to Saudi Arabia, which I find strange, given the vast number of Iranians who take part every year in the hajj. But the US, how would you rate his chances?

I am waiting to hear of any invited player who has tried to play and failed. That would be a serious blow to Saudi Arabia's prestige, more than reversing any PR gain they may have made by hosting the event.

By the way, I thought it was quite wrong for England to play in the 1986 Dubai Olympiad, from which Israel was excluded, but I don't remember much fuss about it. Does anyone have a clearer recollection?
I'm not actually suggesting FIDE organises a tournament in Crimea, although given their track record probably only a matter of time.
As a factual matter, FIDE does not recognise Crimea as part of Russia, which puts any official events in that region out of court.
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Brian Towers
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Re: 2017 King Salman World Rapid and Blitz Chess Championships, Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, 26-30 December 2017

Post by Brian Towers » Mon Nov 13, 2017 4:48 pm

NickFaulks wrote:
Mon Nov 13, 2017 4:33 pm
I am waiting to hear of any invited player who has tried to play and failed. That would be a serious blow to Saudi Arabia's prestige, more than reversing any PR gain they may have made by hosting the event.
Indeed a test case would be of great interest to the chess world generally. I believe the PCA is strongly against the tournament. Perhaps its president would consider trying to enter and play and see what happens?
Ah, but I was so much older then. I'm younger than that now.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: 2017 King Salman World Rapid and Blitz Chess Championships, Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, 26-30 December 2017

Post by Roger de Coverly » Mon Nov 13, 2017 5:30 pm

NickFaulks wrote:
Mon Nov 13, 2017 4:33 pm

By the way, I thought it was quite wrong for England to play in the 1986 Dubai Olympiad, from which Israel was excluded, but I don't remember much fuss about it. Does anyone have a clearer recollection?
Jon Mestel declined selection for England and the Dutch boycotted it. Israel didn't play or even ask to play, but "understood" FIDE's reasons for awarding it to Dubai. Presumably the same reasons as Saudi Arabia, a large budget from which FIDE takes a cut.

Which one of the rival FIDE managements made the decision? Saudi isn't a Russian client so maybe not Kirsan.

NickFaulks
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Re: 2017 King Salman World Rapid and Blitz Chess Championships, Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, 26-30 December 2017

Post by NickFaulks » Mon Nov 13, 2017 5:44 pm

Roger de Coverly wrote:
Mon Nov 13, 2017 5:30 pm
Which one of the rival FIDE managements made the decision? Saudi isn't a Russian client so maybe not Kirsan.
Well before Kirsan's time. Campo would have been in total control.

edit : it's just dawned on me that your comment referred to the 2017 event - "Saudi" should have been a giveaway.

It's easy to forget the theory of "rival managements", which exists only in your head. There is only one management, and it resides in Athens.
Last edited by NickFaulks on Mon Nov 13, 2017 5:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Roger de Coverly
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Re: 2017 King Salman World Rapid and Blitz Chess Championships, Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, 26-30 December 2017

Post by Roger de Coverly » Mon Nov 13, 2017 5:50 pm

NickFaulks wrote:
Mon Nov 13, 2017 5:44 pm
Well before Kirsan's time. Campo would have been in total control.
In 1986, but not 2017, as I was referring to the decision to award the Rapid and Blitz events to Saudi Arabia. I was presuming as in 1986, that money for FIDE's coffers was the primary motivation.

Alex Holowczak
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Re: 2017 King Salman World Rapid and Blitz Chess Championships, Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, 26-30 December 2017

Post by Alex Holowczak » Tue Nov 14, 2017 10:27 am

NickFaulks wrote:
Mon Nov 13, 2017 4:33 pm
In any case, how many players on this list would fail to get a US visa, particularly in six weeks?
On Twitter, Simon Williams recently posted that he failed to get the right visa to do something chessy in the USA, and so was pointed in the direction of the next flight home. I think David Sedgwick couldn't get a visa for St. Louis one year too.

In other sports, Kyle Anderson, an Australian darts player, was unable to get a UK visa for some time, and had to miss various prestigious events while it got sorted. He was ranked in the top 32 at the time. Hossein Vafaei, an Iranian snooker player, couldn't get a visa to play in the International Championship in China. He finally managed it in time to catch the last possible flight to get him to his match in time ... only for the flight to be cancelled at short notice. More comically, there are often a number of Chinese players who can't get visas to play in the China Open, or some other Chinese tournament. Why? World Snooker in its wisdom holds the 1st round of the competition, which it calls "Qualifiers", in somewhere like Barnsley or Preston - and they can't get UK visas. :?

Which got me thinking. If England hosted this event rather than Saudi Arabia, how many players would fail to get visas? I'm sure some wouldn't.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: 2017 King Salman World Rapid and Blitz Chess Championships, Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, 26-30 December 2017

Post by Roger de Coverly » Tue Nov 14, 2017 10:34 am

Alex Holowczak wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2017 10:27 am
Which got me thinking. If England hosted this event rather than Saudi Arabia, how many players would fail to get visas? I'm sure some wouldn't.
It might well depend on whether the event had some form of official support. There weren't visa problems for the 2012 Olympics for example. For that matter football teams never seem to have a problem.

The London Classic has had problems in the past.

The Armenian team didn't play in Baku, although Aronian played the World Cup there.

NickFaulks
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Re: 2017 King Salman World Rapid and Blitz Chess Championships, Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, 26-30 December 2017

Post by NickFaulks » Tue Nov 14, 2017 10:54 am

Roger de Coverly wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2017 10:34 am
The Armenian team didn't play in Baku, although Aronian played the World Cup there.
That was because their own government told them not to go - for political reasons, not for their own safety. The Azeris had made it clear that they hoped they would go.
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Mick Norris
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Re: 2017 King Salman World Rapid and Blitz Chess Championships, Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, 26-30 December 2017

Post by Mick Norris » Tue Nov 14, 2017 11:47 am

Roger de Coverly wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2017 10:34 am
For that matter football teams never seem to have a problem
There was a PSG player refused entry to play in a Champions League match in London
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