I think Brian's point is that the Arab players wouldn't have been allowed to travel to Israel, even if the Israelis were happy for Arab players to be there. If they can't leave in the first place, the issue of what happens to them when they return home doesn't exist.Stewart Reuben wrote: ↑Mon Jan 08, 2018 3:25 pmBrian >those players wouldn't have been allowed to leave home in the first place. You are making false comparisons.<
How come then I met players at such events as the Lloyds Bank Masters where they assured me it was impossible for them to play against Israeli opponents?
How come the Yemen defaulted 4-0 against Israel in 2008?
2017 King Salman World Rapid and Blitz Chess Championships, Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, 26-30 December 2017
-
- Posts: 9085
- Joined: Sat May 30, 2009 5:18 pm
- Location: Oldbury, Worcestershire
Re: 2017 King Salman World Rapid and Blitz Chess Championships, Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, 26-30 December 2017
-
- Posts: 912
- Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2007 3:46 pm
Re: 2017 King Salman World Rapid and Blitz Chess Championships, Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, 26-30 December 2017
I think that is generally where people go wrong, countries don't think they just exist, so you should never attribute a thought to a country (or race), it is individuals that think.Stewart Reuben wrote: ↑Mon Jan 08, 2018 5:26 pmArab countries think the Israelis have done wrong - by existing.
Re: 2017 King Salman World Rapid and Blitz Chess Championships, Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, 26-30 December 2017
A sovereign power - an overwhelming authority; a monopoliser of violence; in short, a hegemon - does not grant agency (ie freedom of thought or action) to individuals. It substitutes itself for individuals in the name of the nation. Hence, when a non-democratic nation 'thinks' - that is, declares a view - it commits all citizens; unlike a democracy which may declare a view subject to revision by citizens.David Shepherd wrote: ↑Mon Jan 08, 2018 6:38 pmI think that is generally where people go wrong, countries don't think they just exist, so you should never attribute a thought to a country (or race), it is individuals that thinkStewart Reuben wrote: ↑Mon Jan 08, 2018 5:26 pmArab countries think the Israelis have done wrong - by existing.
To the matters here: Israel's existence - that is, its existential legitimacy - is contested by some states. Those states instruct their citizens to act, by policy and threat, as if Israel does not (should not!) exist. Regardless of the individual 'thoughts' of those citizens, and their willingness to play Israelis, their states (the hegemon) ban that prospect.
What does FIDE do? It proclaims Gens Una Sumus, then promptly caves in to whatever the anti-Israel tyrannies say. What does Stewart Reuben do? Astonishingly, truly astonishingly, he does the same!
RULE: no excuses; no exceptions - nations and their citizens should not be excluded by other nations and their citizens. FIDE should never have agreed the recent events with Saudi Arabia under the terms that prevailed; our players and officials are diminished by association; and the ECF announcement on the matter should be the start, not the end, of the discussion
Last edited by David Robertson on Sun Jan 14, 2018 6:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
-
- Posts: 3418
- Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2012 5:17 am
Re: 2017 King Salman World Rapid and Blitz Chess Championships, Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, 26-30 December 2017
Its an excellent initiative by FIDE to publish the Appeal Committees rationale for making the decisions they did at Riyadh. I was surprised that in the game Grischuk-Mamedyarov when the original arbiter missed a fourfold repetition that the Appeals Committee only upheld it by 2-1 with Malcolm Pein being the dissenting voice.Stewart Reuben wrote: ↑Thu Jan 04, 2018 6:45 amThe way it is written it seems as if what had happened was eventually checked with the computer showing the moves on a sensory board.
Why not do that when the first claim was made?
Anyway it gave the Appeal Committee something to do.
As we know Inarkiev's claim was turned down but I found the explanation for doing so rather difficult to follow and the fact that they gave Inarkiev his money back for lodging the Appeal was a surprise.
-
- Posts: 21318
- Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 2:51 pm
Re: 2017 King Salman World Rapid and Blitz Chess Championships, Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, 26-30 December 2017
Here's what the European Chess Union had to say
http://www.europechess.org/statement-fi ... hips-2017/
http://www.europechess.org/statement-fi ... hips-2017/
-
- Posts: 4550
- Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2007 11:04 pm
- Location: writer
Re: 2017 King Salman World Rapid and Blitz Chess Championships, Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, 26-30 December 2017
No. What I have been saying is that FIDE accept the situation, while still paying lip-service to its motto.
-
- Posts: 8472
- Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2010 1:28 pm
Re: 2017 King Salman World Rapid and Blitz Chess Championships, Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, 26-30 December 2017
Another addition to the list of people and organisations demanding that FIDE does what it is clearly going to do anyway. Of course, the more people saying it, the better.Roger de Coverly wrote: ↑Tue Jan 09, 2018 12:08 amHere's what the European Chess Union had to say
http://www.europechess.org/statement-fi ... hips-2017/
If you want a picture of the future, imagine a QR code stamped on a human face — forever.
-
- Posts: 5834
- Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2008 12:28 pm
Re: 2017 King Salman World Rapid and Blitz Chess Championships, Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, 26-30 December 2017
" the fact that they gave Inarkiev his money back for lodging the Appeal was a surprise."
Yes, I thought that. However, it may be more that if they said the appeal was frivolous, then they would be saying the arbiter was an idiot. If they declare the appeal not frivolous, then it sort of says the arbiter made an uncharacteristic unfortunate error in the heat of the moment (which may be true).
Yes, I thought that. However, it may be more that if they said the appeal was frivolous, then they would be saying the arbiter was an idiot. If they declare the appeal not frivolous, then it sort of says the arbiter made an uncharacteristic unfortunate error in the heat of the moment (which may be true).
-
- Posts: 4550
- Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2007 11:04 pm
- Location: writer
Re: 2017 King Salman World Rapid and Blitz Chess Championships, Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, 26-30 December 2017
t is commonplace to return the Appeal fee, if the Appeal has merit. If the committee vote is divided, clearly it does have merit. I think it is improper if the way the committee voted becomes common knowledge.
-
- Posts: 5834
- Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2008 12:28 pm
Re: 2017 King Salman World Rapid and Blitz Chess Championships, Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, 26-30 December 2017
"If the committee vote is divided, clearly it does have merit. I think it is improper if the way the committee voted becomes common knowledge."
I agree - surely the most you say is that it was "unanimous" or by "majority"?
I agree - surely the most you say is that it was "unanimous" or by "majority"?
-
- Posts: 8472
- Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2010 1:28 pm
Re: 2017 King Salman World Rapid and Blitz Chess Championships, Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, 26-30 December 2017
In principle I agree, but when it's a three person committee you can work it out.Kevin Thurlow wrote: ↑Tue Jan 09, 2018 8:01 pmI agree - surely the most you say is that it was "unanimous" or by "majority"?
If you want a picture of the future, imagine a QR code stamped on a human face — forever.
-
- Posts: 2152
- Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 1:37 am
Re: 2017 King Salman World Rapid and Blitz Chess Championships, Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, 26-30 December 2017
It doesn't seem the committee was divided on the Inarkiev appeal (only on the Grischuk appeal).Stewart Reuben wrote: ↑Tue Jan 09, 2018 4:27 pmt is commonplace to return the Appeal fee, if the Appeal has merit. If the committee vote is divided, clearly it does have merit. I think it is improper if the way the committee voted becomes common knowledge.
-
- Posts: 21318
- Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 2:51 pm
Re: 2017 King Salman World Rapid and Blitz Chess Championships, Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, 26-30 December 2017
The FIDE site has something of a sideswipe at Agon in a report by J Vega (Continental President for the Americas)
http://www.fide.com/component/content/a ... -2017.html
(edit) The Continental President for the Americas sees fit to comment on the Rapid/Blitz championships, the FIDE President on the other hand ignores them. He didn't seem to be invited and presumably had little or nothing to do with the decision as to where to hold them.
http://kirsan.today/en
He's been in London, not however to meet with anyone from the ECF, but with the President of the Mongolian Chess Federation (/edit)
http://www.fide.com/component/content/a ... -2017.html
So where was he when the FIDE General Assembly granted commercial rights to Agon without insisting on unrestricted transmission of moves?A highly positive measure that must be followed by FIDE in all its world championships was the free opening of the transmission of the live games to all the websites that wished to use it. This promotes chess and does not limit it as when transmission is conditioned by an economic interest.
(edit) The Continental President for the Americas sees fit to comment on the Rapid/Blitz championships, the FIDE President on the other hand ignores them. He didn't seem to be invited and presumably had little or nothing to do with the decision as to where to hold them.
http://kirsan.today/en
He's been in London, not however to meet with anyone from the ECF, but with the President of the Mongolian Chess Federation (/edit)
-
- Posts: 7258
- Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2011 8:13 am
Re: 2017 King Salman World Rapid and Blitz Chess Championships, Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, 26-30 December 2017
Retweeted Mohamed Al-Medaihki (@almodiahki):
Open letter was sent to @FIDE_chess regarding the opening speech during the world R&B championship last month.The speech included racist statements against my wife @GMzhuchen & an assault on Qatar, which is considered to be a breach of the sports ethical principles & Fide status.
Open letter was sent to @FIDE_chess regarding the opening speech during the world R&B championship last month.The speech included racist statements against my wife @GMzhuchen & an assault on Qatar, which is considered to be a breach of the sports ethical principles & Fide status.
-
- Posts: 8472
- Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2010 1:28 pm
Re: 2017 King Salman World Rapid and Blitz Chess Championships, Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, 26-30 December 2017
Is there any record of these offensive statements?LawrenceCooper wrote: ↑Mon Jan 15, 2018 5:39 pmThe speech included racist statements against my wife @GMzhuchen & an assault on Qatar, which is considered to be a breach of the sports ethical principles & Fide status.
If you want a picture of the future, imagine a QR code stamped on a human face — forever.