Shiraz cup, Shiraz, Iran, 11-18 April 2018

[Kevin Thurlow]

Alexander Hardwick wrote: ↑
Thu Mar 29, 2018 7:32 pm
It's worth pointing out that there is a distinction between "trolling" and "arguing for views which are contrary to those you hold".

No it isn't, waste of effort.

Where's the "like" button again?

[Chris Goodall]

Guys, the Iranian federation banning Dorsa was an absolutely flagrant act of sexism. No man has ever been banned by the Iranian federation for refusing to cover their hair. How much more sexist do you want them to be before you'll call it sexism?!

Now it's one thing to support the ban on the basis that it's Iran and it's a different culture with different rules. "But really the woman wanted to be treated in a sexist way!" is the kind of bull**it that only anonymous alt-right Twitter trolls actually believe.

[NickFaulks]

only anonymous alt-right Twitter trolls

Nobody is anonymous here.

[soheil_hooshdaran]

Guys, the Iranian federation banning Dorsa was an absolutely flagrant act of sexism. No man has ever been banned by the Iranian federation for refusing to cover their hair. How much more sexist do you want them to be before you'll call it sexism?!

Now it's one thing to support the ban on the basis that it's Iran and it's a different culture with different rules.

It is not about sexism. Iran has a theological government proclaiming Islam.
Quran urges women to were head gear and not reveal their adornments other than for their hhusbands or their fathers or their father-in law or their women or men with no desire to women or small kids not aware of women's private parts.
And the federation has also to proclaim Islam. Otherwise it would be closed and thousands of chess players across Iraan will be affected.

[soheil_hooshdaran]

It was the federation that banned Dorsa. That's pretty well within the federation's control to un-ban her.

Also it seems applications for visas to enter Iran have to be made well in advance, and in person at the Iranian embassy in London. You can't just show up in Iran.

You needs to check. some people can get visas at the airport.

No Soheil, you need to stop inducing people to part with cash to enter a tournament that they simply cannot enter, because that is called fraud.

I am sure that residents of some countries can get visas at the airport, like we don't need vcisas to enter Turkey.

Getting visas for overseas players is something the tournament organiser needs to sort out, because in the case of Iran (and many other countries) they need to register as a sponsor. You can't just do it at the airport, that's nonsense. You risk becoming an accessory to fraud if people enter this tournament based on false information you've given them about the visa requirements.

I am sure a good judge can distinguish honesty from lie.

heart woukd tranqualise by lies, words that spoil,
nor will light a luster water and oil

in the right words is the calm of heart
honesty is the trapping instrument of heart

[Chris Goodall]

Guys, the Iranian federation banning Dorsa was an absolutely flagrant act of sexism. No man has ever been banned by the Iranian federation for refusing to cover their hair. How much more sexist do you want them to be before you'll call it sexism?!

Now it's one thing to support the ban on the basis that it's Iran and it's a different culture with different rules.

It is not about sexism. Iran has a theological government proclaiming Islam.
Quran urges women to were head gear and not reveal their adornments other than for their hhusbands or their fathers or their father-in law or their women or men with no desire to women or small kids not aware of women's private parts.
And the federation has also to proclaim Islam. Otherwise it would be closed and thousands of chess players across Iraan will be affected.

Hogwash. The chess federation exists to protect the interests of chess players. Not to police head coverings. If the chess federation didn't actively agree with forcing her to cover her hair, if they thought that rule was unfair, then all they had to do was... nothing at all. Just ignore the situation the same way they'd ignore a male player's choice of headgear. If the government wanted to step in and threaten the chess federation with closure over one player's headgear - let them step in! They would then own that decision, and not the chess federation.

[Chris Goodall]

You needs to check. some people can get visas at the airport.

No Soheil, you need to stop inducing people to part with cash to enter a tournament that they simply cannot enter, because that is called fraud.

I am sure that residents of some countries can get visas at the airport, like we don't need vcisas to enter Turkey.

You're digging yourself further into the hole, Soheil! You know that the visa waiver only applies to residents of "some countries", and yet you're still soliciting entries from a country that is not one of those countries. A judge would call that deliberate dishonesty.

[Kevin Thurlow]

"Guys, the Iranian federation banning Dorsa was an absolutely flagrant act of sexism. No man has ever been banned by the Iranian federation for refusing to cover their hair. How much more sexist do you want them to be before you'll call it sexism?!"

That is a red herring as you well know, the comments arose because of your presumably accidentally ironic comments accusing people of being trolls because they disagreed with you.

It is actually possible to disagree with people without starting a flame war.

[Carl Hibbard]

It is actually possible to disagree with people without starting a flame war.

I noticed this one already

[NickFaulks]

A judge would call that deliberate dishonesty.

I think a judge, if a case were ever to reach them, would consider that anyone who followed Soheil's vague and circumscribed advice without checking further was largely responsible for their own misfortune.

I need to be a bit careful here, since in 2012 three members of my own federation's Olympiad group managed to reach Istanbul airport having somehow convinced themselves and the Gatwick check-in staff that they did not require visas and were detained for two days in a police cell.

[Chris Goodall]

That is a red herring as you well know, the comments arose because of your presumably accidentally ironic comments accusing people of being trolls because they disagreed with you.

It's either deliberate trolling or deliberate sexism. Take your pick.

[Chris Goodall]

A judge would call that deliberate dishonesty.

I think a judge, if a case were ever to reach them, would consider that anyone who followed Soheil's vague and circumscribed advice without checking further was largely responsible for their own misfortune.

If the advice was simply to travel to Iran and do some sightseeing, sure. But Soheil is trying to extract money (and passport details) from people to enter a tournament that they can't enter, and to that end is trying to persuade us that we can in fact enter it. That's what tips it into the realm of fraud.

[soheil_hooshdaran]

No Soheil, you need to stop inducing people to part with cash to enter a tournament that they simply cannot enter, because that is called fraud.

I am sure that residents of some countries can get visas at the airport, like we don't need vcisas to enter Turkey.

You're digging yourself further into the hole, Soheil! You know that the visa waiver only applies to residents of "some countries", and yet you're still soliciting entries from a country that is not one of those countries. A judge would call that deliberate dishonesty.

Yes some, I I said you need to check if Britain is included.

[NickFaulks]

Yes some, I I said you need to check if Britain is included.

Indeed, Soheil, you have said nothing that is untrue. However, you surely should have at least guessed that British citizens would need a visa to travel to Iran and that obtaining one would not be a simple process - you have discovered that for an Iranian citizen visiting Britain, and these things tend to be symmetrical.

[Chris Rice]

Yes some, I I said you need to check if Britain is included.

After checking the Iranian Visa site it's not clear whether a UK, US or Canadian citizen could get a visa for the Shiraz Cup without having to be escorted around in a similar way to travelling to Pyongyang for example. Given that even if you win the event the prize money would barely cover the cost of the flight I'm guessing you're not going to get many takers from the evil imperialist countries.