Chess in Iran

The very latest International round up of English news.
Stewart Reuben
Posts: 4011
Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2007 11:04 pm
Location: writer

Chess in Iran

Post by Stewart Reuben » Sun May 27, 2018 11:37 am

Iran has come a long way since Harandi came to the Lloyds Bank Masters and had to be registered as IM ENG because chess had been banned in Iran.

LawrenceCooper
Posts: 5096
Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2011 8:13 am

Re: Timeline for 2800 ratings

Post by LawrenceCooper » Sun May 27, 2018 3:35 pm

Stewart Reuben wrote:
Sun May 27, 2018 11:37 am
Iran has come a long way since Harandi came to the Lloyds Bank Masters and had to be registered as IM ENG because chess had been banned in Iran.
That name brings back happy memories for me:

[Event "Lloyds Bank Masters"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "1987.08.26"]
[Round "5"]
[White "Harandi, K."]
[Black "Cooper, Lawrence"]
[Result "0-1"]
[ECO "C84"]
[WhiteElo "2430"]
[PlyCount "105"]
[EventDate "1987.??.??"]

1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bb5 a6 4. Ba4 Nf6 5. O-O Be7 6. d4 exd4 7. e5 Ne4 8.
Nxd4 Nxd4 9. Qxd4 Nc5 10. Nc3 Nxa4 11. Qxa4 O-O 12. Be3 d5 13. Rad1 c6 14. Qb3
Kh8 15. Bb6 Qe8 16. Rfe1 Be6 17. Qa4 Qc8 18. Qa5 Bf5 19. Rd2 Bg5 20. Be3 Bd8
21. Qb4 Re8 22. Ne2 a5 23. Qd4 b6 24. Ng3 Be6 25. c3 c5 26. Qd3 Bh4 27. Nf1 Qd7
28. Bf4 Qa4 29. g3 Be7 30. b3 Qc6 31. Qf3 Rad8 32. h4 Qc8 33. Qe3 Rd7 34. Nh2
Red8 35. Red1 b5 36. Bg5 b4 37. Bxe7 Rxe7 38. c4 Red7 39. cxd5 Rxd5 40. Rxd5
Rxd5 41. Rc1 h6 42. Nf1 Qc7 43. f4 a4 44. Kf2 axb3 45. axb3 Qa5 46. Nd2 Bf5 47.
Ke1 Rd4 48. Nc4 Qa8 49. Nd6 Qh1+ 50. Kf2 Qh2+ 51. Ke1 Bh3 52. Nxf7+ Kg8 53. Nh8
0-1

soheil_hooshdaran
Posts: 2812
Joined: Tue Nov 05, 2013 5:24 pm

Re: Timeline for 2800 ratings

Post by soheil_hooshdaran » Sun May 27, 2018 5:15 pm

Stewart Reuben wrote:
Sun May 27, 2018 11:37 am
Iran has come a long way since Harandi came to the Lloyds Bank Masters and had to be registered as IM ENG because chess had been banned in Iran.
When did he came?
Yes, 1979-1988 chess was banned before ayatollah Khomeini issue a Fatwa.

User avatar
Chris Goodall
Posts: 386
Joined: Sun Oct 10, 2010 6:40 pm
Contact:

Re: Timeline for 2800 ratings

Post by Chris Goodall » Mon May 28, 2018 1:33 pm

I will respect Iran's achievements in the chess sphere when they stop banning players for competing against Israelis or for wearing their hair uncovered. And I will stop "bringing politics into chess" when chess stops accepting whatever fait accompli the politicians present to it, for fear that objecting to it would constitute bringing politics into chess.
Chris Goodall, formerly known as Chris Wardle. Northumbria League hand-cranker; ECF Grader for Bernicia and the NCCU.
Newcastle is not in Scotland!

soheil_hooshdaran
Posts: 2812
Joined: Tue Nov 05, 2013 5:24 pm

Re: Timeline for 2800 ratings

Post by soheil_hooshdaran » Mon May 28, 2018 7:53 pm

Chris Goodall wrote:
Mon May 28, 2018 1:33 pm
I will respect Iran's achievements in the chess sphere when they stop banning players for competing against Israelis or for wearing their hair uncovered. And I will stop "bringing politics into chess" when chess stops accepting whatever fait accompli the politicians present to it, for fear that objecting to it would constitute bringing politics into chess.
These two are different, chris.
You are not forced to bring politics into chess, but chess federations are subordinate to the administrations and they subordinate to the government, all of which should follow the constitution.

User avatar
Chris Goodall
Posts: 386
Joined: Sun Oct 10, 2010 6:40 pm
Contact:

Re: Timeline for 2800 ratings

Post by Chris Goodall » Mon May 28, 2018 9:02 pm

soheil_hooshdaran wrote:
Mon May 28, 2018 7:53 pm
chess federations are subordinate to the administrations and they subordinate to the government, all of which should follow the constitution.
Where is it written in the constitution that people who don't cover their hair or play against Israelis shall be banned from playing chess? I can't find that article. It must be the translation I'm using.
Chris Goodall, formerly known as Chris Wardle. Northumbria League hand-cranker; ECF Grader for Bernicia and the NCCU.
Newcastle is not in Scotland!

NickFaulks
Posts: 5147
Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2010 1:28 pm

Re: Timeline for 2800 ratings

Post by NickFaulks » Mon May 28, 2018 9:12 pm

Chris Goodall wrote:
Mon May 28, 2018 9:02 pm
It must be the translation I'm using.
I hold no brief for the way Iran does things, but I suspect a prohibition on dealings with Israelis is there. Could you link to the document to which you refer?

User avatar
Chris Goodall
Posts: 386
Joined: Sun Oct 10, 2010 6:40 pm
Contact:

Re: Timeline for 2800 ratings

Post by Chris Goodall » Mon May 28, 2018 10:15 pm

NickFaulks wrote:
Mon May 28, 2018 9:12 pm
Chris Goodall wrote:
Mon May 28, 2018 9:02 pm
It must be the translation I'm using.
I hold no brief for the way Iran does things, but I suspect a prohibition on dealings with Israelis is there. Could you link to the document to which you refer?
https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Constitu ... ic_of_Iran

1 mention of Iranian Jews, who are to be a protected minority. No mention of Israel.
Chris Goodall, formerly known as Chris Wardle. Northumbria League hand-cranker; ECF Grader for Bernicia and the NCCU.
Newcastle is not in Scotland!

soheil_hooshdaran
Posts: 2812
Joined: Tue Nov 05, 2013 5:24 pm

Re: Timeline for 2800 ratings

Post by soheil_hooshdaran » Tue May 29, 2018 2:23 am

True. These things are not mentioned in the constitution directly, as some activists argue, but the comstitution delegates to the Parlement the passing of laws, which it did about supporting Palastinies and about covering up in the public.
Further, as Isreal is a hostile government to Iran, people get executed for the allegations of dealing with Isrealis, even for having a market there, as happened to MR. Habib Elghanian back in 1979, and as is still happening to some environmentalists these days.
It is like a person being accused of helping USSR during the cold war, for the US. You can narrowly find the dead body.
This issue is very serious, and never something to kid.

User avatar
Chris Goodall
Posts: 386
Joined: Sun Oct 10, 2010 6:40 pm
Contact:

Re: Timeline for 2800 ratings

Post by Chris Goodall » Tue May 29, 2018 11:15 am

soheil_hooshdaran wrote:
Tue May 29, 2018 2:23 am
It is like a person being accused of helping USSR during the cold war, for the US. You can narrowly find the dead body.
Yes, playing a game of chess is exactly like helping a hostile country, that's why the US executed Bobby Fischer in 1972.

What's that, they didn't execute him? They didn't even ban him from representing them? Oh. Sounds like Iran is just inventing its own rules, then.
Chris Goodall, formerly known as Chris Wardle. Northumbria League hand-cranker; ECF Grader for Bernicia and the NCCU.
Newcastle is not in Scotland!

User avatar
Matt Mackenzie
Posts: 2882
Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2009 11:51 pm
Location: Millom, Cumbria

Re: Timeline for 2800 ratings

Post by Matt Mackenzie » Tue May 29, 2018 6:13 pm

Chris Goodall wrote:
Tue May 29, 2018 11:15 am
soheil_hooshdaran wrote:
Tue May 29, 2018 2:23 am
It is like a person being accused of helping USSR during the cold war, for the US. You can narrowly find the dead body.
Yes, playing a game of chess is exactly like helping a hostile country, that's why the US executed Bobby Fischer in 1972.
I seem to remember their treatment of him a bit later was none too respectful, mind......
"Set up your attacks so that when the fire is out, it isn't out!" (H N Pillsbury)

soheil_hooshdaran
Posts: 2812
Joined: Tue Nov 05, 2013 5:24 pm

Re: Timeline for 2800 ratings

Post by soheil_hooshdaran » Wed May 30, 2018 9:20 pm

Chris Goodall wrote:
Tue May 29, 2018 11:15 am
soheil_hooshdaran wrote:
Tue May 29, 2018 2:23 am
It is like a person being accused of helping USSR during the cold war, for the US. You can narrowly find the dead body.
Yes, playing a game of chess is exactly like helping a hostile country, that's why the US executed Bobby Fischer in 1972.

What's that, they didn't execute him? They didn't even ban him from representing them? Oh. Sounds like Iran is just inventing its own rules, then.
I'm not the one to blame. I have no responsiblity whatsoever.
But the difference is that Iran does NOT even recognize Israel. USA did recognize USSR.

User avatar
Chris Goodall
Posts: 386
Joined: Sun Oct 10, 2010 6:40 pm
Contact:

Re: Timeline for 2800 ratings

Post by Chris Goodall » Fri Jun 01, 2018 5:31 pm

soheil_hooshdaran wrote:
Wed May 30, 2018 9:20 pm
But the difference is that Iran does NOT even recognize Israel. USA did recognize USSR.
Nope. Cuba, Venezuela, Malaysia, Indonesia, Pakistan, Bangladesh... none of those recognise Israel either, but they don't ban anyone who plays against an Israeli. It's definitely Iran's decision. I'm not holding you responsible in the slightest. I'm holding your federation responsible. They clearly violated FIDE's anti-discrimination statute. If they didn't decide it for themselves, if it was imposed on them from above, then what we have is political interference in a national team's selection process, which is the kind of thing that makes the IOC not recognise your game as a sport.
Chris Goodall, formerly known as Chris Wardle. Northumbria League hand-cranker; ECF Grader for Bernicia and the NCCU.
Newcastle is not in Scotland!

Stewart Reuben
Posts: 4011
Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2007 11:04 pm
Location: writer

Re: Timeline for 2800 ratings

Post by Stewart Reuben » Fri Jun 01, 2018 7:44 pm

FIDE have a regulation that, if two countries are at war with each other, yet are playing in the same event, then they are allowed to refuse to be paired together. Thus presumably, during the Falklands crisis, Argentine and UK teams did not have to play against each other.

The problem regarding Israel is that some Arabic countries and Iran regard themselves as being at war with Israel. BUT Israel does not regard itself as being at war with them.

One year in Gibraltar we had players from Dubai and Qatar and Israel. Before the pairings were made, I asked the Arabs whether they would play against Israelis. Dubai said no and Qatar said yes. No problem then.

It is not the fault of the chess federation. If there is any fault, it is the decision of the national government. I doubt the chess federation has any say in the matter.

The IOC does recognised both Bridge and Chess as sports. They are simply not part of the Olympic Games.

Look at the original subject heading. This discussion has gone on long enough and, if to continue, should be moved elsewhere.

User avatar
IM Jack Rudd
Posts: 3944
Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2007 1:13 am
Location: Bideford

Re: Chess in Iran

Post by IM Jack Rudd » Fri Jun 01, 2018 7:56 pm

Back in England and back on Moderator duty; discussion has now been moved.

Post Reply