English Chess Forum

There's a full hand of ENG players, mostly younger, playing in this tournament: Daniel Fernandez, Ravi Haria, Andy Horton, Joe McPhillips; and others lower down including Jonathan Pein. Currently, going into rd 5, ENG players crowd out the top boards: Haria, Horton & McPhillips, all 4/4. Indeed the latter took down the CRO top-seed, GM Saric, in rd 4; while Horton nailed the CRO second-seed, GM Zelcic, on the next board. I'm not clever enough to know whether norms are relevant here. But doubtless, someone will work it out

http://chess-results.com/tnr328509.aspx ... ES&flag=30

David Robertson wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 25, 2018 10:27 pm

I'm not clever enough to know whether norms are relevant here. But doubtless, someone will work it out

A GM norm in that field would be tough; you'd need to play 3 of the 5 in the field, and there's only one player over 2500. IM norms look a very realistic possibility though. McPhillips is well placed for an IM norm, although Horton's IM opponent not turning up in Round 3 makes things a little more complicated for him.

There seemed to be a few defaults in Round 3; the 0930 start on a double round day.

Alex Holowczak wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 25, 2018 11:22 pm

David Robertson wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 25, 2018 10:27 pm

I'm not clever enough to know whether norms are relevant here. But doubtless, someone will work it out

A GM norm in that field would be tough; you'd need to play 3 of the 5 in the field, and there's only one player over 2500. IM norms look a very realistic possibility though. McPhillips is well placed for an IM norm, although Horton's IM opponent not turning up in Round 3 makes things a little more complicated for him.

There seemed to be a few defaults in Round 3; the 0930 start on a double round day.

Round 4 on 2018/06/25 at 16:30
Bo. No. Name Typ FED Rtg Pts. Result Pts. Name Typ FED Rtg No.
1 1 GM Saric Ante CRO 2543 3 0 - 1 3 FM Mcphillips Joseph ENG 2399 12
2 11 FM Horton Andrew P ENG 2407 3 1 - 0 3 GM Zelcic Robert CRO 2499 2

makes good reading.

Round 4 games for Joe and Andy

David Robertson wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 25, 2018 10:27 pm

There's a full hand of ENG players, mostly younger, playing in this tournament: Daniel Fernandez, Ravi Haria, Andy Horton, Joe McPhillips; and others lower down including Jonathan Pein. Currently, going into rd 5, ENG players crowd out the top boards: Haria, Horton & McPhillips, all 4/4. Indeed the latter took down the CRO top-seed, GM Saric, in rd 4; while Horton nailed the CRO second-seed, GM Zelcic, on the next board. I'm not clever enough to know whether norms are relevant here. But doubtless, someone will work it out

http://chess-results.com/tnr328509.aspx ... ES&flag=30

GM norms aren't possible (from current situation).

Joe and Andy are looking for their final IM norm

I'm assuming that Andy will need 4 of his 8 opponents to be title holders (at least FM) whereas Joe will need 5/9, in both cases with at least 3 being IM/GM

McPhillips - Haria

Draw in 28 presumably pre-arranged moves - evidence? the entire frenetic line was rattled off to a repetition in quicktime. It might even have been played by Mamedyarov (??) recently, if my vague memory is a guide. Seemed familiar anyway

Joe gets black today against IM Gumularz (2452), who played the London Chess Classic open last year and drew with Gawain, Dan Fernandez and Nihil Sarin
live at 3:30 pm

Andy white against GM Tratar (2449) on board 2; Ravi white against FM Beletic (2370) on board 3

Ravi Haria in sole 1st on 5.5 after rd 6. Andy Horton & Joe McPhillips on 5.0 after two draws in rd 6, the latter well-earned

Is this now the IM norms they seek? If so, well done, Northern lads!

David Robertson wrote: ↑

Wed Jun 27, 2018 9:10 pm

Is this now the IM norms they seek? If so, well done, Northern lads!

Still three rounds to go!

Well, I freely admit to knowing FA about how norms work, picking up bits in here as I go along. So I thought 5/9 did the business, assuming 2400 is secured along the way. Hence I assume your "three rounds to go" must mean that, losing them, the Elo could drop below 2400. But that aside, and everything being equal, they're both set fair. Yes?

David Robertson wrote: ↑

Wed Jun 27, 2018 10:01 pm

Well, I freely admit to knowing FA about how norms work, picking up bits in here as I go along. So I thought 5/9 did the business, assuming 2400 is secured along the way. Hence I assume your "three rounds to go" must mean that, losing them, the Elo could drop below 2400. But that aside, and everything being equal, they're both set fair. Yes?

In simple terms, they need a TPR of 2450 or higher, and for an IM norm, have played 3 IMs or higher, and at least 5 titled players.

Horton has a TPR of 2519, has played 3 IM+ and 5 titled players if you include the opponent who didn't turn up against him. But it's quite complicated given the situation with the default, and I lack the enthusiasm to dive into those murky depths at the moment.

McPhillips has a TPR of 2551, has played 4 IM+ and 4 titled players so far. He needs one more titled player, which I'll be astonished if he doesn't get given his score and the field.

It isn't clear to me whether the TPR shown on Chess-Results factors in the fact you can raise the rating of one player rated below 2050 to 2050 for the calculations. If Chess-Results doesn't do that, then the TPRs are even better than the published ones.

So yes, losing those games, the TPR could drop below 2450, but you can't really tell in a Swiss because you don't know who you're going to play if you start losing games.

But that aside, you are right. The fat lady might not be singing, but she's certainly waiting in the wings for her cue.

Joe is white tomorrow v Dan Fernandez who was with Joe in both the Hungarian events so a quick draw might be possible

Andy has black v an IM which takes him closer to the titled player requirement

My view this morning was they could both draw their way to the norm Fingers crossed they get there

Lots of hard work by both of them to get to this point

Alex Holowczak wrote: ↑

Wed Jun 27, 2018 10:45 pm

Horton has a TPR of 2519, has played 3 IM+ and 5 titled players if you include the opponent who didn't turn up against him. But it's quite complicated given the situation with the default, and I lack the enthusiasm to dive into those murky depths at the moment.

It is relatively simple regarding the default; his norm in the tournament can be done over 8 games, and for the title he will be allowed to get it with only requiring 26 games (instead of 27)

Fide Handbook wrote: 1.41c For a 9 round tournament, if a player has just 8 games because of a forfeit or Bye, but he has met the correct mix of opponents in those games, then if he has a title result in 8 games, it counts as an 8 game norm.

1.51 Two or more norms in events covering at least 27 games, except that if one norm is an 8 game norm as the result of a win by forfeit, then 26 games is sufficient.

Joe v Dan drawn in 28 moves; Ravi drew but Andy lost