Which Candidate Should the ECF Support in the FIDE Presidential Election? (Take 2)

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Which Candidate Should the ECF Support in the FIDE Presidential Election?

Poll ended at Mon Oct 01, 2018 8:05 am

Arkady Dvorkovich
5
11%
Georgios Makropoulos
9
20%
Nigel Short
22
48%
None of the Above
10
22%
 
Total votes: 46

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JustinHorton
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Re: Which Candidate Should the ECF Support in the FIDE Presidential Election? (Take 2)

Post by JustinHorton » Sun Sep 16, 2018 7:12 am

Chris Rice wrote:
Sat Sep 15, 2018 5:15 pm
Malcolm followed this up by commenting on one of Justin's blogs regarding Kasparov's silence:

"He is dumbfounded I'm told"
Him and his sidekick too, apparently. I'm not convinced.
"Do you play chess?"
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NickFaulks
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Re: Which Candidate Should the ECF Support in the FIDE Presidential Election? (Take 2)

Post by NickFaulks » Sun Sep 16, 2018 8:27 am

By the way, the subject of the poll should have been changed once again, to "Which Candidate should the ECF support in a Second Ballot?". That is now the real question, and the one on which the Board will have to decide next week.

TimWall
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Re: Which Candidate Should the ECF Support in the FIDE Presidential Election? (Take 2)

Post by TimWall » Sun Sep 16, 2018 8:31 am

The FIDE election essentially boils to one thing: What kind of FIDE president would Dvorkovich be? Any national federation that is thinking of supporting the Dvorkovich-Short alliance in the FIDE election should read this article, and be very scared.
This is what happened when the Russian Chess Federation dared to oppose the Kremlin's wishes, and nominated nice old safe Anatoly Karpov, instead of Putin's puppet Kirsan Ilyumzhinov in 2010. So-called Kremlin 'liberal' Arkady Dvorkovich personally sent armed 'men in black' to turf out Alexander Bakh and his colleagues out of their offices - at the point of their guns. Is this the democracy we can expect under Dvorkovich in FIDE?

TIME.com
Russian Chess Feud: Checkmate Kremlin
By Simon Shuster / Moscow Thursday, Oct. 14, 2010
http://content.time.com/time/world/arti ... 78,00.html

'From the 1972 Cold War battle of Boris Spassky and Bobby Fischer, to the defection of some of the Soviet Union's greatest players to the West, chess has long been a proxy for international conflict, and a tool to project power. In Vladimir Putin's Russia, it seems, not much has changed.

This year, members of the creaky, chipped Central House of Chess in Moscow staged a mutiny against the Kremlin — one that saw two of the game's greatest legends in open conflict with the country's political elite. The coup ended in pathetic failure on Monday, but by the time it had run its course — which featured armed goons taking over the Chess House and talk of UFOs — the Kremlin showed that it cannot stomach even a marginal threat to its influence, not even when it comes to comes to the politics of chess.

The trouble started in the spring, when two former world chess champions and rivals, Anatoly Karpov and Garry Kasparov, decided to join forces to run against the incumbent president of the game's international ruling body, which is known as FIDE. This irked the Russian government. Kasparov's political activism against Russian Prime Minister Putin in recent years has branded him an enemy of the state: He is banned from Russian politics, frequently arrested, and his projects tend to be harpooned by the Russian bureaucracy at every step. Aside from that, the Kremlin already has a loyal ally as FIDE president, and didn't much care to replace him.

For the past 15 years, FIDE has been ruled by Kirsan Ilyumzhinov, a Putin loyalist who governed the poor Russian republic of Kalmykia for 17 years before agreeing to step down last month. As a consolation prize, the Kremlin is widely thought to have promised him success in the FIDE elections. But Karpov and Kasparov (who served as Karpov's campaign manager and fundraiser) embarked on a globe-trotting campaign that made this promise difficult to keep. After visiting some 30 countries, the duo managed to recruit the support of chess federations in the United States, Canada and most of western Europe, appearing to split the world of chess along Cold War lines ahead of the FIDE vote last month.

Their campaign focused on Ilyumzhinov's alleged mismanagement of chess's global circuit, but Ilyumzhinov's own erratic behavior probably helped their cause. Illyumzhinov likes to tell most journalists who travel to his remote kingdom that he was kidnapped by aliens in 1997. "Go ahead, write it! I want you to write it," Ilyumzhinov told TIME after explaining his belief that Jesus Christ was an alien, and that Earth is set to collide with the planet Nebiru, killing us all, if mankind does not cleanse its "aura" by playing more chess.

The Kremlin, for its part, remains indifferent to these theories. "Kirsan's personal views may sound strange sometimes," says Arkady Dvorkovich, the senior Kremlin official who supported Ilyumzhinov's campaign. "But as long as it does not affect negatively his professional activity, I'm fine with it."

On May 14, however, the members of the Russian Chess Federation, mostly old men with a fondness for tweed and Coke-bottle glasses, gave a rare show of resistance. In a vote that looked more like a revolutionary caucus, they chose Karpov as their official candidate to lead FIDE, and then broke into wild applause. That's when things turned ugly. Dvorkovich, an avid chess player who also serves as chairman of the supervisory board of the Russian Chess Federation, declared their vote invalid, saying that Ilyumzhinov was in fact Russia's official nominee, not Karpov.

Less than a week later, a group of armed men in black suits came to seize the Central House of Chess, where the vote for Karpov had been held. Carrying an order signed by Dvorkovich, they escorted the head of the Russian Chess Federation, Alexander Bakh, out of his office, sealed it, and placed guards at the door. Asked why he had done this, Dvorkovich tells TIME that an audit had found "serious financial misdoings" at the Russian Chess Federation right around the time of its vote for Karpov. He declined to comment on why, in that case, no charges were ever filed against the federation's leadership. "Finances are under our control now and fully transparent," he says.

Now that his coup has failed, Karpov says that his old foe Kasparov was one of his main liabilities. "Of course this hurt me," he told TIME at a cigar club patronized by Russia's chess elite. "Kasparov's political activity made things very difficult for us in Russia." In Germany, France and Switzerland, however, Karpov had no trouble getting the nomination, so he and Kasparov pushed ahead with the campaign.

The final FIDE elections took place in the Russian oil town of Khanty-Mansiysk on Sept. 29, with more than 100 chess federations attending from all over the world. In the words of one western delegate, "It was a circus." When Kasparov was refused the microphone, he stood up and shouted from the audience at Ilyumzhinov, who was sitting on the stage as both a candidate in the vote and its main arbiter. "It was a symbolic moment," Kasparov told TIME a few weeks later. "Ilyumzhinov is a blossom in the field of Putinism, and our partnership against Dvorkovich and Ilyumzhinov was about more than just chess. It had political significance."

In the end, however, the effort failed. Ilyumzhinov won with 95 votes against 55 for Karpov, mostly thanks to the support of small chess federations from places like Zimbabwe. He will now lead FIDE for another four years.

The postscript to that election took place on Monday, Oct. 11, at Moscow's Central House of Chess. Ilya Levitov, a man whom Dvorkovich calls "a good friend," was put forward to lead the Russian Chess Federation, and its members voted unanimously to support him, ousting the man who had led their mutiny in May. "We do not want any further wars, constructive work only," Dvorkovich says of the vote. (He made clear that his comments were made not in his capacity as senior Kremlin adviser but as chairman of the chess federation's supervisory board.) One of the old chess masters who attended Monday's vote, Semyon Tseitlin, describes it with wounded pride. "It was like a meeting of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union. Everyone raised their hands and hailed our new dear leader," Tseitlin says. In this latest showdown, then, it's checkmate Kremlin.'

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JustinHorton
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Re: Which Candidate Should the ECF Support in the FIDE Presidential Election? (Take 2)

Post by JustinHorton » Sun Sep 16, 2018 8:52 am

We can read the text from the link, Tim, you don't need to post it as well.
"Do you play chess?"
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."

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Roger Lancaster
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Re: Which Candidate Should the ECF Support in the FIDE Presidential Election? (Take 2)

Post by Roger Lancaster » Sun Sep 16, 2018 9:10 am

If I may ask the question as a relative innocent in such matters, how reliable do we believe the TIME article to be?

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Re: Which Candidate Should the ECF Support in the FIDE Presidential Election? (Take 2)

Post by JustinHorton » Sun Sep 16, 2018 9:11 am

Chris Rice wrote:
Sat Sep 15, 2018 5:15 pm
"He is dumbfounded I'm told"

Aren't we all?
The first thing is, to be dumbfounded, we'd have to think (for some reason) that this elections, and electios like it, were really about principles, good governance and the like. Rather than what they are, which is struggles for control in which the candidates try to put together coalitions of interests and influence, and people at all levels are always switching sides according to where they think their interests lie. This isn't equally true of all the actors involved, but it applies regardless of where they are from, be that Greece, Russia or England. All the outrage about the conduct of the other side is basically performative: the people denouncing one another worked together only yesterday, and the people who are working together today will be denouncing one another tomorrow.

The second is, to be dumbfounded by Nigel Short behaving like this, making big statements and then acting entirely according to what suits his interests in the here and now, we'd have to ignore his very long history of making big statements and then acting entirely according to what suits his interests in the here and now. It's maybe a particularly remarkable time for him to act in quite so remarkable a manner, but then again, he's never done things by halves, has he?
"Do you play chess?"
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."

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Re: Which Candidate Should the ECF Support in the FIDE Presidential Election? (Take 2)

Post by TimWall » Sun Sep 16, 2018 9:16 am

Roger Lancaster wrote:
Sun Sep 16, 2018 9:10 am
If I may ask the question as a relative innocent in such matters, how reliable do we believe the TIME article to be?
I can verify that story as accurate, as it was also reported in The Moscow Times, where Simon Shuster and I were colleagues until 2008, and in The Moscow News, where I was the editor-in-chief in 2010.

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Re: Which Candidate Should the ECF Support in the FIDE Presidential Election? (Take 2)

Post by TimWall » Sun Sep 16, 2018 9:18 am

JustinHorton wrote:
Sun Sep 16, 2018 8:52 am
We can read the text from the link, Tim, you don't need to post it as well.
But this version is ad-free :)

NickFaulks
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Re: Which Candidate Should the ECF Support in the FIDE Presidential Election? (Take 2)

Post by NickFaulks » Sun Sep 16, 2018 9:22 am

TimWall wrote:
Sun Sep 16, 2018 8:31 am
When Kasparov was refused the microphone, he stood up and shouted from the audience at Ilyumzhinov
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQCjPTw3vCA

Kaasparov was trying to disrupt the roll call, which was required to establish a quorum before any business could take place. Eventually our Delegate decided that he had had enough.

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Re: Which Candidate Should the ECF Support in the FIDE Presidential Election? (Take 2)

Post by JustinHorton » Sun Sep 16, 2018 9:30 am

Whenever a piece about chess politics uncriticially repeats what Kasparov says, it's a big red flag. Of course it doesn't mean that what it says about Kasparov's antagonists is necessarly wrong, far from it, but it almost always does mean that it's based on insufficient knowledge of its subject, and too narrowly sourced.
"Do you play chess?"
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Re: Which Candidate Should the ECF Support in the FIDE Presidential Election? (Take 2)

Post by Roger de Coverly » Sun Sep 16, 2018 9:57 am

TimWall wrote:
Sun Sep 16, 2018 8:31 am
Any national federation that is thinking of supporting the Dvorkovich-Short alliance in the FIDE election should read this article, and be very scared.

I don't recall Malcolm's new friends in the FIDE establishment condemning this action back in 2010.

At a more trivial level, when will we be able to see our rating history without having to register for FIDE's online server? That's a a Makro policy, is it not?
NickFaulks wrote:
By the way, the subject of the poll should have been changed once again, to "Which Candidate should the ECF support in a Second Ballot?". That is now the real question, and the one on which the Board will have to decide next week.
Do they actually need to decide? Is the third placed candidate automatically required to drop out? At least one interpretation is that if the first ballot doesn't result in greater than 50% support for a candidate, a second ballot takes place where a clear majority will suffice. It enables a type of "none of the above" vote against the two leading candidates.

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Re: Which Candidate Should the ECF Support in the FIDE Presidential Election? (Take 2)

Post by JustinHorton » Sun Sep 16, 2018 10:05 am

Roger de Coverly wrote:
Sun Sep 16, 2018 9:57 am
TimWall wrote:
Sun Sep 16, 2018 8:31 am
Any national federation that is thinking of supporting the Dvorkovich-Short alliance in the FIDE election should read this article, and be very scared.

I don't recall Malcolm's new friends in the FIDE establishment condemning this action back in 2010.
So what? It's not exactly "Clean Hands for FIDE", is it?
"Do you play chess?"
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."

lostontime.blogspot.com

TimWall
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Re: Which Candidate Should the ECF Support in the FIDE Presidential Election? (Take 2)

Post by TimWall » Sun Sep 16, 2018 10:11 am

I am by no means ignoring Makro’s flaws, and his record in FIDE is there for everyone to see. But without the Kremlin pulling the strings, and the influence of people such as Malcolm, I am hopeful that FIDE can be reformed. In 2022, we could be looking at a better FIDE leadership - and even a clean election.
The only point I was trying to make was that Dvorkovich, as a member of Putin’s inner circle, would be 10 times worse for world chess.
For example, what chance would FIDE have of securing non-Russian sponsorship if Dvorkovich were in charge?

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Re: Which Candidate Should the ECF Support in the FIDE Presidential Election? (Take 2)

Post by JustinHorton » Sun Sep 16, 2018 10:22 am

TimWall wrote:
Sun Sep 16, 2018 10:11 am
I am by no means ignoring Makro’s flaws, and his record in FIDE is there for everyone to see. But without the Kremlin pulling the strings, and the influence of people such as Malcolm
Malcolm's in alliance with the people he's allied with, not in opposition to them. Really could we drop this pretence that when our guys do this, they're just holding their noses, whereas the other people are just cynics.
TimWall wrote:
Sun Sep 16, 2018 10:11 am
For example, what chance would FIDE have of securing non-Russian sponsorship if Dvorkovich were in charge?
How did he fare for non-Russian sponsorship when organising the World Cup?
"Do you play chess?"
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."

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NickFaulks
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Re: Which Candidate Should the ECF Support in the FIDE Presidential Election? (Take 2)

Post by NickFaulks » Sun Sep 16, 2018 10:24 am

Roger de Coverly wrote:
Sun Sep 16, 2018 9:57 am
At a more trivial level, when will we be able to see our rating history without having to register for FIDE's online server?
It seems unlikely that the Premiumchess connection would survive Makro's departure. It may be hoped that the system would revert to free access.
Do they actually need to decide?
Yes, they certainly do. Abstaining from the main event, either by actually doing so or by voting for Short in the second round, is one of three options.

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