Which Candidate Should the ECF Support in the FIDE Presidential Election? (Take 2)

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Which Candidate Should the ECF Support in the FIDE Presidential Election?

Poll ended at Mon Oct 01, 2018 8:05 am

Arkady Dvorkovich
5
11%
Georgios Makropoulos
9
20%
Nigel Short
22
48%
None of the Above
10
22%
 
Total votes: 46

NickFaulks
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Re: Which Candidate Should the ECF Support in the FIDE Presidential Election? (Take 2)

Post by NickFaulks » Sun Sep 16, 2018 10:32 am

JustinHorton wrote:
Sun Sep 16, 2018 10:22 am
TimWall wrote:
Sun Sep 16, 2018 10:11 am
For example, what chance would FIDE have of securing non-Russian sponsorship if Dvorkovich were in charge?
How did he fare for non-Russian sponsorship when organising the World Cup?
He seems to have had a certain amount of luck.

https://www.slingshotsponsorship.com/20 ... orship-xi/

IanCalvert
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Re: Which Candidate Should the ECF Support in the FIDE Presidential Election? (Take 2)

Post by IanCalvert » Sun Sep 16, 2018 3:06 pm

NickFaulks wrote:
Sun Sep 16, 2018 10:24 am
Do they actually need to decide?
Yes, they certainly do. Abstaining from the main event, either by actually doing so or by voting for Short in the second round, is one of three options.
Nick,maybe I disagree. The ECF may have a reputational risk , with among others potential chess sponsors. Supporting a "slate" that becomes wickeder and wickeder is a bad thing! Does anyone agree?

NickFaulks
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Re: Which Candidate Should the ECF Support in the FIDE Presidential Election? (Take 2)

Post by NickFaulks » Sun Sep 16, 2018 9:10 pm

IanCalvert wrote:
Sun Sep 16, 2018 3:06 pm
Nick,maybe I disagree. The ECF may have a reputational risk , with among others potential chess sponsors. Supporting a "slate" that becomes wickeder and wickeder is a bad thing! Does anyone agree?
Which one are you talking about?

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Re: Which Candidate Should the ECF Support in the FIDE Presidential Election? (Take 2)

Post by David Robertson » Sun Sep 16, 2018 10:32 pm

NickFaulks wrote:
Sun Sep 16, 2018 9:10 pm
IanCalvert wrote:
Sun Sep 16, 2018 3:06 pm
Supporting a "slate" that becomes wickeder and wickeder is a bad thing!
Which one are you talking about?
:lol: :lol: :lol: It really is that bad :roll:

IanCalvert
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Re: Which Candidate Should the ECF Support in the FIDE Presidential Election? (Take 2)

Post by IanCalvert » Mon Sep 17, 2018 8:40 am

I was thinking of a scenario in which nigel was eliminated in the first round.

Maybe the ECF should then try(!) to extract a "price" for voting for Malcolm's slate in a second round :such as a review of K=40 for juniors or even a more radical rating review (for juniors)??

Mick Norris
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Re: Which Candidate Should the ECF Support in the FIDE Presidential Election? (Take 2)

Post by Mick Norris » Mon Sep 17, 2018 9:25 am

IanCalvert wrote:
Sun Sep 16, 2018 3:06 pm
NickFaulks wrote:
Sun Sep 16, 2018 10:24 am
Do they actually need to decide?
Yes, they certainly do. Abstaining from the main event, either by actually doing so or by voting for Short in the second round, is one of three options.
Nick,maybe I disagree. The ECF may have a reputational risk , with among others potential chess sponsors. Supporting a "slate" that becomes wickeder and wickeder is a bad thing! Does anyone agree?
Yes, very much
Any postings on here represent my personal views and should not be taken as representative of the Manchester Chess Federation www.manchesterchess.co.uk

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JustinHorton
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Re: Which Candidate Should the ECF Support in the FIDE Presidential Election? (Take 2)

Post by JustinHorton » Mon Sep 17, 2018 9:36 am

IanCalvert wrote:
Mon Sep 17, 2018 8:40 am
I was thinking of a scenario in which nigel was eliminated in the first round.

Maybe the ECF should then try(!) to extract a "price" for voting for Malcolm's slate in a second round :such as a review of K=40 for juniors or even a more radical rating review (for juniors)??
It's go big or go home
"Do you play chess?"
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."

lostontime.blogspot.com

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Which Candidate Should the ECF Support in the FIDE Presidential Election? (Take 2)

Post by Roger de Coverly » Mon Sep 17, 2018 9:44 am

IanCalvert wrote:
Mon Sep 17, 2018 8:40 am
I was thinking of a scenario in which nigel was eliminated in the first round.
Nigel might come third in the first round, but is only eliminated if he chooses to withdraw. The electoral rule is that if the first ballot doesn't produce a decisive winner, there's a second ballot where it's only necessary to finish first. Votes from the third placed candidate might be switched to the leader or runner up, but it isn't mandatory.

NickFaulks
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Re: Which Candidate Should the ECF Support in the FIDE Presidential Election? (Take 2)

Post by NickFaulks » Mon Sep 17, 2018 10:07 am

Mick Norris wrote:
Mon Sep 17, 2018 9:25 am
IanCalvert wrote:
Sun Sep 16, 2018 3:06 pm
Supporting a "slate" that becomes wickeder and wickeder is a bad thing! Does anyone agree?
Yes, very much
Mick, since Ian won't tell me, perhaps you will. What are you agreeing with? Which campaign do you believe is getting wickeder and wickeder? Both, perhaps? I'm asking because I don't know.

Jonathan Rogers
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Re: Which Candidate Should the ECF Support in the FIDE Presidential Election? (Take 2)

Post by Jonathan Rogers » Mon Sep 17, 2018 10:43 am

First, a question.

For all the Dvorkovich - Short alliance, am I right in thinking that Nigel actually has no power of delivery? He can't make his "clean hands" supporters transfer to Dvorkovich in the second ballot and why should we assume that he even has much influence on that matter? It wouldn't surprise me if Makro won the second ballot by getting a reasonable share of Short supporters.

IanCalvert
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Re: Which Candidate Should the ECF Support in the FIDE Presidential Election? (Take 2)

Post by IanCalvert » Mon Sep 17, 2018 11:12 am

NickFaulks wrote:
Mon Sep 17, 2018 10:07 am
Mick Norris wrote:
Mon Sep 17, 2018 9:25 am
IanCalvert wrote:
Sun Sep 16, 2018 3:06 pm
Supporting a "slate" that becomes wickeder and wickeder is a bad thing! Does anyone agree?
Yes, very much
Mick, since Ian won't tell me, perhaps you will. What are you agreeing with? Which campaign do you believe is getting wickeder and wickeder? Both, perhaps? I'm asking because I don't know.
Nick, sincere apologies.

I start from a "1066 and All That" assumption that anyone , even Quakers, can be corrupted by power. Those with a debated track record arguably of wickedness can get worse, wickeder. The future focus point I was trying to make, given the ECF was voting for Nigel in the first ballot was about a" good thing" for the ECF to do in a second ballot, if there was one.

Chris Rice
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Re: Which Candidate Should the ECF Support in the FIDE Presidential Election? (Take 2)

Post by Chris Rice » Mon Sep 17, 2018 11:30 am

The campaigning continues to maintain its high standards. Malcolm tweets to Nigel:

"Why don't you be honest with your team and supporters and withdraw from the contest. You have few votes and a man you roundly condemned just a month ago is now your new best friend #yourowntweetssayitall August4 August5 #whatsthedealNigel ?"

Makro backed this up with another tweet but it now seems to have been taken down. It ran along the lines that as Nigel was conceding that Makro would organise the tournament in Saudi Arabia again that Nigel was therefore conceding the election. Anyway Nigel has had another couple of goes at Makro:

Tweet 1:

"I fear that somewhere between Pericles and Makropoulos the spirit of Athenian democracy got lost."

and tweet 2 which has a picture of Makro nodding off on the plane:

"Greek #chess team forced to fly economy via Moscow to save 5 euros. Meanwhile #Makropoulos flies bizz, of course :)"

Rumours are that Dvorkovich has risen above this and has extended an olive branch to the Makro team and half a dozen Nina Ricci perfume bottles are on their way. Nice gesture.

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JustinHorton
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Re: Which Candidate Should the ECF Support in the FIDE Presidential Election? (Take 2)

Post by JustinHorton » Mon Sep 17, 2018 12:02 pm

Chris Rice wrote:
Mon Sep 17, 2018 11:30 am
#yourowntweetssayitall August4 August5 #whatsthedealNigel ?"
That's this tweet and this one
"Do you play chess?"
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."

lostontime.blogspot.com

Paul Cooksey
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Re: Which Candidate Should the ECF Support in the FIDE Presidential Election? (Take 2)

Post by Paul Cooksey » Mon Sep 17, 2018 12:03 pm

Jonathan Rogers wrote:
Mon Sep 17, 2018 10:43 am
It wouldn't surprise me if Makro won the second ballot by getting a reasonable share of Short supporters.
At least there is some fun to be had speculating.

I was thinking something entirely different - the answer to Nick's question "Why is Short making a deal now?" might be that Dvorkovich could win a second ballot without Short's help.

Makro's main campaigning point seems to be he is going to win. So presumably when the numbers are in the public domain, it might be possible to take away some of his supporters if Dvorkovich can plausibly claim that he will have enough votes in the second round. The people prioritising being on the winning side might be easier to persuade to switch than those voting for Short on principle. The theory is at least consistent with Makro's side trying to persuade Short to drop out before the first ballot.

My theory would be bad news for Malcolm. He has said he joined the Makro team with reservations but in order to win. Maybe Dvorkovich will be willing to wipe the slate clean if he wins, but maybe not. Malcolm has been very energetic in criticising Russian soft power in chess, albeit 100 years too late for it to be relevant in my view.

NickFaulks
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Re: Which Candidate Should the ECF Support in the FIDE Presidential Election? (Take 2)

Post by NickFaulks » Mon Sep 17, 2018 12:05 pm

IanCalvert wrote:
Mon Sep 17, 2018 11:12 am
Nick, sincere apologies.
No need, but I am still not certain that I understand. I think you are suggesting that, if both candidates are considered unacceptable, it would be better to abstain, one way or another.

Unfortunately, one of them is going to be the next FIDE President, so is it best for the ECF to recuse itself from the process? It's not as though choosing between two seriously flawed candidates is a new conundrum, and it doesn't just happen in FIDE politics. It is a long time since I have been offered a realistic candidate for British PM for whom I do not feel bottomless disgust, but if I don't choose, others will.

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