Which Candidate Should the ECF Support in the FIDE Presidential Election? (Take 2)

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Which Candidate Should the ECF Support in the FIDE Presidential Election?

Poll ended at Mon Oct 01, 2018 8:05 am

Arkady Dvorkovich
5
11%
Georgios Makropoulos
9
20%
Nigel Short
22
48%
None of the Above
10
22%
 
Total votes: 46

Chris Rice
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Re: Which Candidate Should the ECF Support in the FIDE Presidential Election? (Take 2)

Post by Chris Rice » Fri Aug 10, 2018 9:51 am

A tweet from Nigel Short with a letter of endorsement of Papua New Guinea signed by Stuart Fancy. The letter also contains further allegations against FIDE.

NickFaulks
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Re: Which Candidate Should the ECF Support in the FIDE Presidential Election? (Take 2)

Post by NickFaulks » Fri Aug 10, 2018 9:57 am

Chris Rice wrote:
Fri Aug 10, 2018 9:51 am
with a letter of endorsement of Papua New Guinea signed by Stuart Fancy.
I've never worked out how to find things on Twitter. Where can I see this?

Chris Rice
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Re: Which Candidate Should the ECF Support in the FIDE Presidential Election? (Take 2)

Post by Chris Rice » Fri Aug 10, 2018 10:04 am

NickFaulks wrote:
Fri Aug 10, 2018 9:57 am
Chris Rice wrote:
Fri Aug 10, 2018 9:51 am
with a letter of endorsement of Papua New Guinea signed by Stuart Fancy.
I've never worked out how to find things on Twitter. Where can I see this?
A couple of ways are to either choose to 'follow' Nigel Short on his Twitter feed or you can visit his Cleans Hands 4 FIDE site.

NickFaulks
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Re: Which Candidate Should the ECF Support in the FIDE Presidential Election? (Take 2)

Post by NickFaulks » Fri Aug 10, 2018 10:30 am

Chris Rice wrote:
Fri Aug 10, 2018 10:04 am
or you can visit his Cleans Hands 4 FIDE site.
Thanks, done that. I did not realise it was Stuart's signature which appeared under Magoffin's name.

Mick Norris
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Re: Which Candidate Should the ECF Support in the FIDE Presidential Election? (Take 2)

Post by Mick Norris » Sat Aug 11, 2018 3:32 pm

Tim Wall
However, in a new development, the Russian leader Vladimir Putin himself has apparently directly intervened in the Kremlin’s global campaign to get national chess federations to support his former deputy prime minister, adding weight to communiqués from embassies which are also surfacing.
Any postings on here represent my personal views and should not be taken as representative of the Manchester Chess Federation www.manchesterchess.co.uk

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Which Candidate Should the ECF Support in the FIDE Presidential Election? (Take 2)

Post by Roger de Coverly » Sat Aug 11, 2018 4:18 pm

Tim Wall at chessbase wrote:
Siegel said that he had not seen before the "systematic political pressure that we are seeing now", and in apparent answer to Short's argument, attempts to exculpate Makropolous from prior Russian influence campaigns:

"As I understand it, it was not Makropolous but Kirsan Ilyumzhinov and the manager of his Moscow office [Berik Balgabaev -Ed.] who travelled around countries, making promises about money to national federations. After the 2014 election in Tromso, people from all over the world contacted me as FIDE Treasurer, asking for these promises to be redeemed. I replied, politely, that there was no money in the budget for those requested payments".
Not for the first time, the FIDE Treasurer seems to fail to realise that he was elected as part of the Kirsan ticket and should take responsibility for its actions. At least then he confirm allegations likely to have been made and denied about the 2014 election and no doubt the 2010 and 2006 elections before them.

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Re: Which Candidate Should the ECF Support in the FIDE Presidential Election? (Take 2)

Post by JustinHorton » Sat Aug 11, 2018 11:15 pm

I doubt I've read Tim's piece properly - I'm tired, and I found it a bit rambling - but at the end, Malcolm is quoted saying something maybe a bit odd.
We have seen in FIFA and formerly in the IOC and to an extent in FIDE what can happen when one country dominates or has too much influence.
In re: FIFA and the IOC, who specifically is Malcolm thinking of?
"Do you play chess?"
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."

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Roger de Coverly
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Re: Which Candidate Should the ECF Support in the FIDE Presidential Election? (Take 2)

Post by Roger de Coverly » Sat Aug 11, 2018 11:29 pm

JustinHorton wrote:
Sat Aug 11, 2018 11:15 pm
In re: FIFA and the IOC, who specifically is Malcolm thinking of?
Russia presumably, given the 2018 World Cup and the Sochi Winter Olympics.

He should reflect that his fellow team are currently in office because of Kremlin support. That's perhaps where the 2010 election was lost, that if Karpov had secured the support of the Russian government, that Kirsan could have been ousted. In 2014, there would always be the problem that the Kremlin would oppose the dissident Kasparov.

IOC guidelines that government support for candidates in international sporting bodies is unacceptable is relatively recent.

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Re: Which Candidate Should the ECF Support in the FIDE Presidential Election? (Take 2)

Post by JustinHorton » Sun Aug 12, 2018 6:38 am

Roger de Coverly wrote:
Sat Aug 11, 2018 11:29 pm
JustinHorton wrote:
Sat Aug 11, 2018 11:15 pm
In re: FIFA and the IOC, who specifically is Malcolm thinking of?
Russia presumably, given the 2018 World Cup and the Sochi Winter Olympics.
But that would be a nonsense. Winning one bid for the World Cup.no more indicates that Russia dominates FIFA than it indicates that Qatar does or Brazil does. Russia exercises no political control over FIFA at all.
"Do you play chess?"
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."

lostontime.blogspot.com

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JustinHorton
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Re: Which Candidate Should the ECF Support in the FIDE Presidential Election? (Take 2)

Post by JustinHorton » Sun Aug 12, 2018 7:51 am

I did genuinely wonder whether he might be thinking of the era roughly comprising the last two decades of the twentieth century, when the US more or less had the clout to win an Olympic bid any time it wanted (I say "more or less" because Salt Lake City lost narrowly to Nagono in bidding for 1998 before winning the 2002 Winter Games) but even that didn't constitute the kind of thing we're referring to here, it just meant US cities were able to mobilise quantities of money during this period that other places weren't.
"Do you play chess?"
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."

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Roger de Coverly
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Re: Which Candidate Should the ECF Support in the FIDE Presidential Election? (Take 2)

Post by Roger de Coverly » Sun Aug 12, 2018 9:50 am

JustinHorton wrote:
Sun Aug 12, 2018 6:38 am
Russia exercises no political control over FIFA at all.
From the original article
This era of 'Money for Control' has to end.
Was it not alleged that the awards of the 2018 World Cup to Russia and 2022 to Qatar had been smoothed by considerable payments and inducements to the decision makers?

It had always been suspected that elections for FIDE President had been similarly influenced and indeed admitted as such by the current FIDE Treasurer. For that matter Kasparov was suspended for playing by those rules in the 2014 election.

NickFaulks
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Re: Which Candidate Should the ECF Support in the FIDE Presidential Election? (Take 2)

Post by NickFaulks » Sun Aug 12, 2018 10:13 am

Graham Magoffin wrote: Cleans Hands 4 FIDE
Papua New Guinea suffered under the Kirsan/Makro/Borg regime because we openly gave our support to Kasparov presidential ticket.
I was surprised to read this because I do not remember any such declaration. I am now confident that the reason for this is that it never happened, although Mr Magoffin, who has become involved more recently, may not know that. What certainly does appear to have happened is that one prominent member of the federation informed Geoffrey Borg that he could not rely upon their support, which was sufficient excuse for his arsenal of WMDs to be unleashed against them.

My understanding in 2014 was that, left to their own devices, PNG might well have maintained the position of which they spoke in 2010, one of "a plague on both your houses". The last time I heard PNG give enthusiatic support to any presidential ticket it was Bessel Kok's in 2006, a prominent member of which was of course the aforementioned Geoffrey Borg.

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Re: Which Candidate Should the ECF Support in the FIDE Presidential Election? (Take 2)

Post by JustinHorton » Sun Aug 12, 2018 10:16 am

Roger de Coverly wrote:
Sun Aug 12, 2018 9:50 am
JustinHorton wrote:
Sun Aug 12, 2018 6:38 am
Russia exercises no political control over FIFA at all.
From the original article
This era of 'Money for Control' has to end.
Was it not alleged that the awards of the 2018 World Cup to Russia and 2022 to Qatar had been smoothed by considerable payments and inducements to the decision makers?
Yes it was, but as I said, that is not control in the way that either Malcolm or the piece were talking about.
"Do you play chess?"
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."

lostontime.blogspot.com

NickFaulks
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Re: Which Candidate Should the ECF Support in the FIDE Presidential Election? (Take 2)

Post by NickFaulks » Sun Aug 12, 2018 10:58 am

JustinHorton wrote:
Sun Aug 12, 2018 10:16 am
Yes it was, but as I said, that is not control in the way that either Malcolm or the piece were talking about.
Football and chess are very different cases. The Russians got what they wanted with the 2018 World Cup, which they can justifiably regard as a huge success, and will probably now leave FIFA alone ( unless they are required to defend against any attempts to derail the unsatisfactory 2022 event in the Gulf ).

Chess, on the other hand, has long been a core Russian interest, and I'm sure they are genuinely fearful of it being taken over by American money. I have a strong feeling that having FIDE run from Moscow would be a very bad development, and do not think I shall be changing that view, but it is not easy to explain precisely why. Whatever you think of the Kremlin, it has done a lot more for chess than the US Treasury ever has.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Which Candidate Should the ECF Support in the FIDE Presidential Election? (Take 2)

Post by Roger de Coverly » Sun Aug 12, 2018 11:06 am

NickFaulks wrote:
Sun Aug 12, 2018 10:58 am
I have a strong feeling that having FIDE run from Moscow would be a very bad development
It's not exactly a "development" though, having been the case more or less since Kirsan became President. The Kremlin could have replaced him with Karpov, but for unknown reasons decided not to. Perhaps Kasparov's support for Karpov had something to do with it.

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