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Re: Which Candidate Should the ECF Support in the FIDE Presidential Election? (Take 2)
Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2018 10:59 am
by NickFaulks
ECF wrote: The board felt this particularly in the light of Mr Dvorkovich’s highly political interview on BBC Hard Talk
Highly political interview? Why do they think Hard Talk was given that title?
Of course, I understand why the ECF Board decided to go along with the presumed wishes of HMG, which may perhaps have been imparted to some of them, but isn't that what the Israeli federation is in the line for expulsion for even allegedly thinking about doing?
Re: Which Candidate Should the ECF Support in the FIDE Presidential Election? (Take 2)
Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2018 11:21 am
by JustinHorton
Without prejudice to anything else in the statement, if we were trying to demonstrate the truth of this thesis
an adjunct of Russian foreign policy, as it had been under Kirsan Ilyumzhinov
how specifically would we do so?
Re: Which Candidate Should the ECF Support in the FIDE Presidential Election? (Take 2)
Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2018 11:48 am
by Christopher Kreuzer
NickFaulks wrote: ↑Fri Sep 21, 2018 10:59 am
Of course, I understand why the ECF Board decided to go along with the presumed wishes of HMG, which may perhaps have been imparted to some of them, but isn't that what the Israeli federation is in the line for expulsion for even allegedly thinking about doing?
Where would you draw the line, Nick? How political do things have to get (for all concerned) before they are political enough to affect things to an unacceptable level? There were presumably some on the ECF Board who abstained, were absent, or opposed the motion ("a clear majority"), but I doubt we will be told who voted which way (unless there are some resignations or quiet departures in light of this). Or are voting details given in the minutes to the Board meetings? What I find more worrying is the signs that the way this has been mishandled by Russia (the attempts at 'fake news' are backfiring badly) may be a sign that those in power in Russia are losing control (and being
ridiculed by their own people). This needs to happen at some point, but could have various consequences (none are very good in the short-term).
ECF Press Release
Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2018 2:01 pm
by John Upham
Starts
At an ECF Board meeting held on 20th September 2018 the ECF Board decided by a clear majority to support the Presidential ticket of Georgios Makropoulos in the FIDE Presidential elections to be held alongside the Chess Olympiad at Batumi on 3rd October 2018. The Board felt it was paramount to support a strong ticket with English participation, and it was apparent that Nigel Short’s campaign had gained little traction. Furthermore, in view of current UK-Russia relations, the Board felt unable to support the candidacy of Arkady Dvorkovich, or anyone connected with it. The board felt this particularly in the light of Mr Dvorkovich’s highly political interview on BBC Hard Talk on 10th September in which he ridiculed Britain’s concerns about Russian involvement in the Salisbury nerve agent attack. Moreover, given the threat of the FIDE Presidency continuing as an adjunct of Russian foreign policy, as it had been under Kirsan Ilyumzhinov, the Board felt that abstention was not a responsible option. The Board was of the view that under Mr Makropoulos’ ticket, with Malcolm Pein as Deputy President, FIDE would have a better chance of becoming an independent sports organisation free of political influence.
Ends
Stop me if you've heard this one befoe
Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2018 2:30 pm
by JustinHorton
John Upham wrote: ↑Fri Sep 21, 2018 2:01 pm
Starts
Reads like something we've seen before
Ends
Hello John, have you met
David?
Re: Stop me if you've heard this one befoe
Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2018 4:32 pm
by John Upham
JustinHorton wrote: ↑Fri Sep 21, 2018 2:30 pm
John Upham wrote: ↑Fri Sep 21, 2018 2:01 pm
Starts
Reads like something we've seen before
Ends
Hello John, have you met
David?
No, have you ?
Re: Which Candidate Should the ECF Support in the FIDE Presidential Election? (Take 2)
Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2018 5:17 pm
by Mick Norris
Christopher Kreuzer wrote: ↑Fri Sep 21, 2018 11:48 am
NickFaulks wrote: ↑Fri Sep 21, 2018 10:59 am
Of course, I understand why the ECF Board decided to go along with the presumed wishes of HMG, which may perhaps have been imparted to some of them, but isn't that what the Israeli federation is in the line for expulsion for even allegedly thinking about doing?
Where would you draw the line, Nick? How political do things have to get (for all concerned) before they are political enough to affect things to an unacceptable level? There were presumably some on the ECF Board who abstained, were absent, or opposed the motion ("a clear majority"), but I doubt we will be told who voted which way (unless there are some resignations or quiet departures in light of this). Or are voting details given in the minutes to the Board meetings?
The voting details would be very interesting, especially for those who perceive Malcolm as having too much influence over some of the board members; it might even influence the way Council votes in the forthcoming ECF Elections
No doubt Nigel will comment on failing to secure the ECF vote for himself, although I doubt he'll be surprised
Re: Which Candidate Should the ECF Support in the FIDE Presidential Election? (Take 2)
Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2018 5:22 pm
by JustinHorton
Mick Norris wrote: ↑Fri Sep 21, 2018 5:17 pm
those who perceive Malcolm as having too much influence over some of the board members
Regardless of what one thinks about the statement under discussion, this is an issue, and perhaps one that should have been addressed before it got mixed up with FIDE politics.
(Not that this was ever going to happen, obviously.)
Re: Which Candidate Should the ECF Support in the FIDE Presidential Election? (Take 2)
Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2018 7:13 pm
by Roger Lancaster
The (ECF) Board was of the view that under Mr Makropoulos’ ticket, with Malcolm Pein as Deputy President, FIDE would have a better chance of becoming an independent sports organisation free of political influence.
While understanding why the 'clear majority' of the ECF Board may have had difficulty supporting a Russian candidate, and taking as read that Nigel's campaign was unlikely to succeed, this still leaves the ECF displaying touching faith in Malcolm Pein's ability to reform Georgios Makropoulos. I'm not a betting man but, if I were, I'd look at the Makropoulos track record and bet in the opposite direction to the ECF.
Re: Which Candidate Should the ECF Support in the FIDE Presidential Election? (Take 2)
Posted: Sat Sep 22, 2018 12:56 am
by Chris Rice
The ECF decision reminds me of a scene in the film
Argo:
Mendez: ... There are only bad options. It's about finding the best one.
Turner: You don't have a better bad idea than this?
O'Donnell: This is the best bad idea we have, sir. By far.
Plenty of action today. Dvorkovich
kicked off with:
"I am pleased to learn that Ethics Commission will stage its meeting on September 28, and my good name will be reconfirmed already before the elections. I'd like to point out that we offered to stage the hearing on September 18, but the complainant has declined this proposal."
Makro
responded with:
"While threatening in public, aiming to stop me from complaining to the Ethics Commission, at the same time he is begging the same Commission for immunity. #I cannot be threatened."
Then Malcolm
commented on the ECF decision:
"Stinging rebuke for @nigelshortchess who cannot even gain the support of his own federation. England decisively votes for Makropoulos ticket...For the record I recused myself from the vote"
Makro of course was in
his glee:
"The English Chess Federation officially announced support for our ticket in #FIDEelections2018 and not Nigel Short who they nominated in the past. Proving the true value of Short's marriage with our rivals = Zero (0). Not even his own country supports him... Thank you England!"
Re: Which Candidate Should the ECF Support in the FIDE Presidential Election? (Take 2)
Posted: Sat Sep 22, 2018 1:02 am
by Roger de Coverly
Chris Rice quoting Malcolm Pein wrote:
England decisively votes for Makropoulos ticket
I fail to recall a vote with that effect amongst either the ECF Council or the wider membership.
Arrogance by Malcolm is no better way of promoting a "none of the above" rejection in the forthcoming domestic election.
Re: Which Candidate Should the ECF Support in the FIDE Presidential Election? (Take 2)
Posted: Sat Sep 22, 2018 6:50 am
by JustinHorton
Roger de Coverly wrote: ↑Sat Sep 22, 2018 1:02 am
Chris Rice quoting Malcolm Pein wrote:
England decisively votes for Makropoulos ticket
I fail to recall a vote with that effect amongst either the ECF Council or the wider membership.
Did anybody ask for one? Has it been previous practice for one to be held?
Re: Which Candidate Should the ECF Support in the FIDE Presidential Election? (Take 2)
Posted: Sat Sep 22, 2018 10:16 am
by Roger de Coverly
JustinHorton wrote: ↑Sat Sep 22, 2018 6:50 am
[Dud anybody ask for one? Has it been previous practice for one to be held?
I was querying the word "decisively". It was a split vote by the ECF Directors without any reference to a wider constituency. Once they declined to include the issue on the Agenda at the April Council meeting, they were always in the dark about what the wider membership thought. I doubt the discussions here, if they bothered to follow them, gave any clearer lead,
I wonder whether the possibility that the Makro machinations and appeals to the Ethics Commission might get Dvorkovich disqualified was considered by the ECF Directors. It might be Nigel's best chance of winning. All disputed Delegate appointments in 2014 were resolved in favour of the Kirsan/Makro supporter.
Re: Which Candidate Should the ECF Support in the FIDE Presidential Election? (Take 2)
Posted: Sat Sep 22, 2018 10:49 am
by NickFaulks
Roger de Coverly wrote: ↑Sat Sep 22, 2018 10:16 am
All disputed Delegate appointments in 2014 were resolved in favour of the Kirsan/Makro supporter.
Also, more relevantly, in 2018*. However, Ethics and Constitutional Commissions are ( for now ) very different animals from Electoral Commission.
*Makro/Pein this time, of course.
Re: Which Candidate Should the ECF Support in the FIDE Presidential Election? (Take 2)
Posted: Sat Sep 22, 2018 11:18 am
by JustinHorton
Roger de Coverly wrote: ↑Sat Sep 22, 2018 10:16 am
I was querying the word "decisively". It was a split vote by the ECF Directors without any reference to a wider constituency.
Right, but since when has there been any such reference, or any serious suggestion that it be made?