Which Candidate Should the ECF Support in the FIDE Presidential Election? (Take 2)

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Which Candidate Should the ECF Support in the FIDE Presidential Election?

Poll ended at Mon Oct 01, 2018 8:05 am

Arkady Dvorkovich
5
11%
Georgios Makropoulos
9
20%
Nigel Short
22
48%
None of the Above
10
22%
 
Total votes: 46

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Which Candidate Should the ECF Support in the FIDE Presidential Election? (Take 2)

Post by Roger de Coverly » Sat Sep 22, 2018 12:10 pm

JustinHorton wrote:
Sat Sep 22, 2018 11:18 am
Right, but since when has there been any such reference, or any serious suggestion that it be made?
The ECF with Nigel as Delegate was mostly consistently anti-Kirsan and anti the FIDE establishment. The President who wanted to use the ECF as a stepping stone to FIDE office lasted only a handful of months. The annual re-election of Nigel would have given those on Council, if any, opposed to this stance an opportunity to express an opinion. Indeed someone regarded as a member of the FIDE establishment ran against Nigel one year and was defeated.

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Re: Which Candidate Should the ECF Support in the FIDE Presidential Election? (Take 2)

Post by JustinHorton » Sat Sep 22, 2018 12:24 pm

That doesn't actually answer my question, does it?
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Re: Which Candidate Should the ECF Support in the FIDE Presidential Election? (Take 2)

Post by JustinHorton » Sat Sep 22, 2018 12:41 pm

Roger de Coverly wrote:
Sat Sep 22, 2018 12:10 pm

The ECF with Nigel as Delegate was mostly consistently anti-Kirsan and anti the FIDE establishment.
However supporters of that position also made great play of Kirsan's links and political subservience to Vladimir Putin, a fact that can demonstrated in many ways (including, as it happens, searching for the word Putin in the forum posts of Roger de Coverly).

The same people who made outraged noises then are now making the sane outraged noises in support of....Arkady Dvorkovich.

Even by the standards of the English chess community, this is ludicrous. Entertainingly ludicrous, that's for sure, but humbug is still humbug, however sweet it may be to the taste.
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Re: Which Candidate Should the ECF Support in the FIDE Presidential Election? (Take 2)

Post by Roger de Coverly » Sat Sep 22, 2018 2:47 pm

chess.com have an interview with two of the candidates.

https://www.chess.com/news/view/dvorkov ... -questions

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Re: Which Candidate Should the ECF Support in the FIDE Presidential Election? (Take 2)

Post by Brian Towers » Sat Sep 22, 2018 5:31 pm

Roger de Coverly wrote:
Sat Sep 22, 2018 2:47 pm
chess.com have an interview with two of the candidates.

https://www.chess.com/news/view/dvorkov ... -questions
Interesting link and well worth a read.

Does Makro's refusal to engage in debate with his rivals mean that he is the favourite, or at least views himself as the favourite?
Is he implicitly saying "Judge me on my record"?
Ah, but I was so much older then. I'm younger than that now.

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Re: Which Candidate Should the ECF Support in the FIDE Presidential Election? (Take 2)

Post by Chris Rice » Sat Sep 22, 2018 6:51 pm

Brian Towers wrote:
Sat Sep 22, 2018 5:31 pm
Does Makro's refusal to engage in debate with his rivals mean that he is the favourite, or at least views himself as the favourite? Is he implicitly saying "Judge me on my record"?
I believe you may be right about him being the favourite but I'm not sure if that stems from his refusal to enter into a debate. My understanding is that Makro's health is not so good and an intense debate with the other candidates at this stage would not be advisable.

Dvorkovich or Nigel haven't commented on the ECF decision which is telling. Nigel must have suspected this might happen but it must have been a crushing blow for him nonetheless. However, I detect that Nigel's plan may be to ally himself even more closely with Dvorkovich. In his latest tweet note the use of "we" in his comments to the dual chess.com interview:

"Something wrong with FIDE? We have the answers! Makro clearly doesn't."

Also note how Dvorkovich hasn't commented at all (I haven't been able to locate anything on social media). Is he trying to distance himself from Nigel? If it's an issue for the ECF not to vote for him on the basis of the Skripal issue then if he is Putin's man then what does Putin think of him teaming up with an English GM? Dvorkovich may be in a difficult position in this regard but at the same time may need the votes Nigel will get assuming that after the ECF decision the federations that pledged their votes to him haven't had a change of heart.

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Re: Which Candidate Should the ECF Support in the FIDE Presidential Election? (Take 2)

Post by Roger de Coverly » Sat Sep 22, 2018 7:10 pm

Chris Rice wrote:
Sat Sep 22, 2018 6:51 pm
My understanding is that Makro's health is not so good and an intense debate with the other candidates at this stage would not be advisable.
I believe the "interview" took the form of a set of questions which the candidates would answer at their leisure. But perhaps it's difficult to answer questions on the lines of "what would you do if you were head of FIDE", when you've been head or deputy head for the last twenty years or so and taken part in three election victories as an integral part of the Kirsan team.

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Re: Which Candidate Should the ECF Support in the FIDE Presidential Election? (Take 2)

Post by David Sedgwick » Sat Sep 22, 2018 8:02 pm

Chris Rice wrote:
Sat Sep 22, 2018 6:51 pm
Also note how Dvorkovich hasn't commented at all (I haven't been able to locate anything on social media).
I expect that we shall hear from him again when he gets to Batumi.

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Re: Which Candidate Should the ECF Support in the FIDE Presidential Election? (Take 2)

Post by Chris Rice » Sun Sep 23, 2018 11:29 am

Roger de Coverly wrote:
Sat Sep 22, 2018 7:10 pm
Chris Rice wrote:
Sat Sep 22, 2018 6:51 pm
My understanding is that Makro's health is not so good and an intense debate with the other candidates at this stage would not be advisable.
I believe the "interview" took the form of a set of questions which the candidates would answer at their leisure. But perhaps it's difficult to answer questions on the lines of "what would you do if you were head of FIDE", when you've been head or deputy head for the last twenty years or so and taken part in three election victories as an integral part of the Kirsan team.
Makro apparently doesn't even want to answer the set of questions:

"More Lennart Ootes Retweeted ChesscomNews
Very disappointed that @makro_chess declined to answer a list of questions for @ChesscomNews. His #FIDEForward program (http://fideforward.org/program ) doesn't answer them either. Maybe @TelegraphChess would be interested to provide some insights?"

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Re: Which Candidate Should the ECF Support in the FIDE Presidential Election? (Take 2)

Post by JustinHorton » Sun Sep 23, 2018 11:42 am

Just as an aside, sending candidates a list of questions to answer at their leisure is not a particularly penetrating way to cover an electoral campaign.
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Re: Which Candidate Should the ECF Support in the FIDE Presidential Election? (Take 2)

Post by Chris Rice » Sun Sep 23, 2018 11:46 am

JustinHorton wrote:
Sun Sep 23, 2018 11:42 am
Just as an aside, sending candidates a list of questions to answer at their leisure is not a particularly penetrating way to cover an electoral campaign.
I wouldn't disagree at all but surprised when handed an easy win that Makro didn't take it. Leonard Ootes followed up with a very interesting tweet:

"We had an interview with @TelegraphChess before, and his vision is clear. https://www.chess.com/news/view/malcolm ... ident-2022 … Unfortunately we don’t know to what extent @makro_chess agrees with him and will allow him to execute the plans."

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Re: Which Candidate Should the ECF Support in the FIDE Presidential Election? (Take 2)

Post by Roger de Coverly » Sun Sep 23, 2018 8:36 pm

I won't give the direct link, because the content might be considered offensive, but if you know where to find the site, Kevin Spraggett is not impressed by the decision of the ECF Board.

Roger Lancaster
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Re: Which Candidate Should the ECF Support in the FIDE Presidential Election? (Take 2)

Post by Roger Lancaster » Sun Sep 23, 2018 9:00 pm

I wouldn't profess to know what Kevin Spraggett had to say about Malcolm Pein but his other views are quite expolosive.

"I don’t play so much these days, but in the relatively few international tournaments that I have played in during the past 5 years here in Europe, I have witnessed a significant number of examples of cheating. Even amongst 2700-plus players, not just the lowly amateur.

"Some of these methods used are quite sophisticated, and implicate outside help. All require the tournament arbiters to close their eyes and look the other way. As I wrote several times here on this blog, a good rule of thumb is that at any given time in any tournament as many as 20% of the participants are cheating in one way or the other. Not just with apps.

"Now that it is well established that parents, spectators, arbiters and even organizers are participating in this ‘epidemic’, that rule of thumb must be updated and increased. Organized chess can not continue this way. Perhaps it is time for FIDE to stop listening to arbiters and organizers, or to start expelling some arbiters and organizers that players have already noticed can not be trusted."

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Re: Which Candidate Should the ECF Support in the FIDE Presidential Election? (Take 2)

Post by Tim Harding » Sun Sep 23, 2018 10:54 pm

Roger Lancaster wrote:
Sun Sep 23, 2018 9:00 pm
I wouldn't profess to know what Kevin Spraggett had to say about Malcolm Pein but his other views are quite expolosive.

"I don’t play so much these days, but in the relatively few international tournaments that I have played in during the past 5 years here in Europe, I have witnessed a significant number of examples of cheating. Even amongst 2700-plus players, not just the lowly amateur.

"Some of these methods used are quite sophisticated, and implicate outside help. All require the tournament arbiters to close their eyes and look the other way. As I wrote several times here on this blog, a good rule of thumb is that at any given time in any tournament as many as 20% of the participants are cheating in one way or the other. Not just with apps.

"Now that it is well established that parents, spectators, arbiters and even organizers are participating in this ‘epidemic’, that rule of thumb must be updated and increased. Organized chess can not continue this way. Perhaps it is time for FIDE to stop listening to arbiters and organizers, or to start expelling some arbiters and organizers that players have already noticed can not be trusted."
Roger, can you please re-post this in the General Chat/ Cheating at Chess thread or start a new thread there, so we can keep this one free for FIDE election stuff?

If you do that, I would be interested to hear some specifics of the kinds of cheating Spraggett alleges.

I stopped reading his blog because I didn't want pornographic images getting on to my hard drive.
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Re: Which Candidate Should the ECF Support in the FIDE Presidential Election? (Take 2)

Post by Chris Rice » Sun Sep 23, 2018 11:15 pm

Makro attempted a couple of digs in the campaign today against Dvorkovich.

Firstly:

"Mr. Dvorkovich "offered" a hearing on 18 September in Lausanne, knowing very well that it was impossible for the Ethics Commission members (EC) to arrange travel and get visas to Switzerland in only 2 working days. The EC naturally dismissed this absurd suggestion."

Another interpretation would be that Dvorkovich was trying to clear his name from Makro's interestingly timed complaint as quickly as possible before the election.

Then:

" In addition, Mr. Dvorkovich came up with the "argument" that the Ethics Commission cannot touch him because he is ...not a player(!!) nor a FIDE official yet. Then he even asked for a complete postponement of decisions for ...after the General Assembly! Very "pleased" indeed."

Again another interpretation would be that Dvorkovich queried whether the Ethics Commission was really set up for the type of complaint Makro made, which as we'll recall, was only made because the anti-corruption committee that he set up wasn't fit for purpose.

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