Chess.com Isle Of Man Tournament 20 to 28 October 2018

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Nick Burrows
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Re: Chess.com Isle Of Man Tournament 20 to 28 October 2018

Post by Nick Burrows » Sat Oct 20, 2018 10:47 pm

David Robertson wrote:
Sat Oct 20, 2018 10:13 pm
effectively wrecking his tournament
Or making it, depending on his perspective

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Chess.com Isle Of Man Tournament 20 to 28 October 2018

Post by Roger de Coverly » Sat Oct 20, 2018 11:09 pm

David Robertson wrote:
Sat Oct 20, 2018 10:13 pm
it's an absurdity that, because the lowest-rated player is given a 1st round full-point bye, he now gets paired in the top half of the draw for the next several rounds, effectively wrecking his tournament
Those in FIDE who discuss these things have found some jargon. The key words are "pairing allocated bye (PAB)". They've discussed various solutions, one of which is effectively the "float the median" approach advocated by the CAA. That can have the possible disadvantage that the free point in the first round can help win the tournament. That's not going to happen in the Isle of Man, but I've seen it in an English open that the median player was able to finish equal first.

Another solution, being the one they adopted in the Euro Clubs just finished is that the PAB is only worth a half point.

The bigger problem with the FIDE pairing rules as applied to tournaments of lower status than Opens is that it disadvantages players without ratings, particularly those at the end of the alphabet. They get more byes than "chance" would allocate to them.

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IM Jack Rudd
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Re: Chess.com Isle Of Man Tournament 20 to 28 October 2018

Post by IM Jack Rudd » Sat Oct 20, 2018 11:31 pm

I've seen lots of crazy things in English tournaments, including a player winning a tournament when he was eligible for the section two sections below.

Ian Thompson
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Re: Chess.com Isle Of Man Tournament 20 to 28 October 2018

Post by Ian Thompson » Sat Oct 20, 2018 11:33 pm

Roger de Coverly wrote:
Sat Oct 20, 2018 11:09 pm
Another solution, being the one they adopted in the Euro Clubs just finished is that the PAB is only worth a half point.
Penalising a player through no fault of their own can't be right.

It also doesn't seem fair that a player getting the bye only gets half a point while someone getting a walkover, presumably, gets one point.

What do you do for someone who gets a bye through arbiter error? A few years ago I got the bye in the first round of a tournament because the arbiter mistakenly paired me against someone who had chosen to take a half-point bye. As the number 1 seed, being penalised half a point might well have made the difference between winning, and not winning, the tournament.

NickFaulks
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Re: Chess.com Isle Of Man Tournament 20 to 28 October 2018

Post by NickFaulks » Sun Oct 21, 2018 12:07 am

Roger de Coverly wrote:
Sat Oct 20, 2018 11:09 pm
They've discussed various solutions, one of which is effectively the "float the median" approach advocated by the CAA.
I believe the only reason that this obviously sensible approach has not been accepted is that it has never been satisfactorily coded. I do not suggest that this is a simple task.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Chess.com Isle Of Man Tournament 20 to 28 October 2018

Post by Roger de Coverly » Sun Oct 21, 2018 12:25 am

NickFaulks wrote:
Sun Oct 21, 2018 12:07 am
I do not suggest that this is a simple task.
I've long thought it was an obvious and straightforward hack. You just introduce into the pairings the "controller's friend" who always has the lowest ranking. Having being paired, the controller's friend finds an urgent appointment with lunch and defaults. If there's an even number of players, the friend declines to be paired.

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JustinHorton
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Re: Chess.com Isle Of Man Tournament 20 to 28 October 2018

Post by JustinHorton » Sun Oct 21, 2018 6:46 am

Nick Burrows wrote:
Sat Oct 20, 2018 10:47 pm
David Robertson wrote:
Sat Oct 20, 2018 10:13 pm
effectively wrecking his tournament
Or making it, depending on his perspective
Well yes.
"Do you play chess?"
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."

lostontime.blogspot.com

Alan Atkinson
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Re: Chess.com Isle Of Man Tournament 20 to 28 October 2018

Post by Alan Atkinson » Sun Oct 21, 2018 1:30 pm

IM Jack Rudd wrote:
Sat Oct 20, 2018 3:29 pm
How often do you see a tournament where a round 1 all-GM clash doesn't get onto the liveboards?
It's the case that for round two, there are quite a number of big names that sit beyond the live boards.

Nick Burrows
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Re: Chess.com Isle Of Man Tournament 20 to 28 October 2018

Post by Nick Burrows » Mon Oct 22, 2018 7:55 am

There was a dispute at the end of the David Howell game around three fold repetition procedure. His opponent didn't follow it correctly and David was incensed. He stopped the clocks and went to the arbiter. His opponent professed he didnt know the rules, to which David responded "you should" & "its cheating".

I didnt understand why he was so angry when a 3-fold repetition had taken place?

David Sedgwick
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Re: Chess.com Isle Of Man Tournament 20 to 28 October 2018

Post by David Sedgwick » Mon Oct 22, 2018 8:57 am

Nick Burrows wrote:
Mon Oct 22, 2018 7:55 am
There was a dispute at the end of the David Howell game around three fold repetition procedure. His opponent didn't follow it correctly and David was incensed. He stopped the clocks and went to the arbiter. His opponent professed he didnt know the rules, to which David responded "you should" & "its cheating".

I didnt understand why he was so angry when a 3-fold repetition had taken place?
But had it?

See http://chess-results.com/partieSuche.as ... 85685&rd=2. The gane score given there may not be accurate, but if it is it looks like a totally phoney claim.

It would still constitute a draw offer, which David presumably accepted.

NickFaulks
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Re: Chess.com Isle Of Man Tournament 20 to 28 October 2018

Post by NickFaulks » Mon Oct 22, 2018 9:19 am

David Sedgwick wrote:
Mon Oct 22, 2018 8:57 am
The game score given there may not be accurate, but if it is it looks like a totally phoney claim.
Something doesn't look right about this story. Perhaps the game actually went on longer than shown.

Nick Burrows
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Re: Chess.com Isle Of Man Tournament 20 to 28 October 2018

Post by Nick Burrows » Mon Oct 22, 2018 9:50 am

I think it occurred after the move 40..Rb2. The weird thing is the players didn't return to the hall in the next 30-40 mins, so where did the remaining moves take place?

NickFaulks
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Re: Chess.com Isle Of Man Tournament 20 to 28 October 2018

Post by NickFaulks » Mon Oct 22, 2018 10:04 am

Ah, thanks. It looks as though White missed an opportunity to make a valid claim on move 38, but there was nothing on move 40.

Nick Burrows
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Re: Chess.com Isle Of Man Tournament 20 to 28 October 2018

Post by Nick Burrows » Mon Oct 22, 2018 10:15 am

It may well have been on move 38, but that he made the claim incorrectly so the game went on...somewhere?

Peter Shaw
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Re: Chess.com Isle Of Man Tournament 20 to 28 October 2018

Post by Peter Shaw » Mon Oct 22, 2018 10:27 am

They were in the playing hall when I finished at about 8:30. My game wasn't too far away I didn't pick up on anything unusual going on.

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