Repercussions / Fallout from FIDE Elections?

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Roger de Coverly
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Re: Repercussions / Fallout from FIDE Elections?

Post by Roger de Coverly » Thu Oct 04, 2018 10:47 am

Matthew Turner wrote:
Thu Oct 04, 2018 10:38 am
Perhaps the answer then is for Rex Sinquefield to get his wallet out and set up a rival to FIDE.
He didn't during the Kirsan era. As far as Dvorkovich is concerned, I would have thought it a case of wait and see. He doesn't strike me as someone who would follow his own prejudices like demanding new forms of World Championship, faster time limits, zero time defaults etc as Kirsan did.

Kasparov has been very quiet. Having finally seen off Kirsan, and surely it was the Kremlin who sacked him, not the chess world, maybe he's done a deal to that might enable him to safely travel to Russia.

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JustinHorton
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Re: Repercussions / Fallout from FIDE Elections?

Post by JustinHorton » Thu Oct 04, 2018 10:54 am

There is no way Rex Sinquefield is going to set up a federation involving chessplayers across the world. It's absolute fantasy. I can imagine him wanting to buy up the world championship. More than that - why? how? what? where are people getting this from?
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JustinHorton
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Re: Repercussions / Fallout from FIDE Elections?

Post by JustinHorton » Thu Oct 04, 2018 10:58 am

Roger de Coverly wrote:
Thu Oct 04, 2018 10:47 am
Kasparov has been very quiet.
Egregiously so
Roger de Coverly wrote:
Thu Oct 04, 2018 10:47 am
Having finally seen off Kirsan, and surely it was the Kremlin who sacked him, not the chess world
I'm not seeing this at all. He'd gone: recognising this is not the same as bringing it about.
Roger de Coverly wrote:
Thu Oct 04, 2018 10:47 am
maybe he's done a deal to that might enable him to safely travel to Russia.
There's not any actual evidence for this, is there?
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Brian Towers
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Re: Repercussions / Fallout from FIDE Elections?

Post by Brian Towers » Thu Oct 04, 2018 11:05 am

Roger de Coverly wrote:
Thu Oct 04, 2018 10:47 am
Matthew Turner wrote:
Thu Oct 04, 2018 10:38 am
Perhaps the answer then is for Rex Sinquefield to get his wallet out and set up a rival to FIDE.
He didn't during the Kirsan era.
Actually he did, more or less. He backed the Kasparov candidacy with a promise of $10 million. Kirsan famously came out with his "I give $20 million yesterday" speech which Short parodied at the start of his speech.
Ah, but I was so much older then. I'm younger than that now.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Repercussions / Fallout from FIDE Elections?

Post by Roger de Coverly » Thu Oct 04, 2018 11:10 am

JustinHorton wrote:
Thu Oct 04, 2018 10:58 am
I'm not seeing this at all. He'd gone: recognising this is not the same as bringing it about.
In 2014, Kirsan was travelling the world meeting chess dignitaries and national politicians more often than not in the Company of the Russian Ambassador. Offers of scholarships in Russia were on the table. This was documented on the official FIDE website. That Russian support was not around in 2018.

The Russians could have dumped him in 2010 by supporting Karpov. The suggestion was that being supported to remain President of FIDE was a consolation prize for being kicked out of office in Kalmykia.

Matthew Turner
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Re: Repercussions / Fallout from FIDE Elections?

Post by Matthew Turner » Thu Oct 04, 2018 11:10 am

JustinHorton wrote:
Thu Oct 04, 2018 10:54 am
There is no way Rex Sinquefield is going to set up a federation involving chessplayers across the world. It's absolute fantasy. I can imagine him wanting to buy up the world championship. More than that - why? how? what? where are people getting this from?
Not fantasy, relatively easy. You set up an organisation called the World Chess Federation, you take all the FIDE rated tournaments in the last two years and give all the players a World Chess Federation rating. Any country can join the WCF and will be assigned votes based on the number of rated players. You organise events with the top players, organise some events with developing nations - that links in nicely with your St Louis initiative (and in passing presumably has tax advantages). You are a true American patriot spreading ideals across thge world and getting one over on those pesky Russians.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Repercussions / Fallout from FIDE Elections?

Post by Roger de Coverly » Thu Oct 04, 2018 11:16 am

Matthew Turner wrote:
Thu Oct 04, 2018 11:10 am
You set up an organisation called the World Chess Federation, you take all the FIDE rated tournaments in the last two years and give all the players a World Chess Federation rating.
They've already done the rating bit.
http://universalrating.com/

Does anyone take any notice? They didn't answer questions about a handful of players who had ridiculously low ratings. That would indicate either a bug in their system or FIDE was feeding them dodgy data, perhaps for data ownership reasons. Ratings don't have credibility unless you can see the results data driving them.

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JustinHorton
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Re: Repercussions / Fallout from FIDE Elections?

Post by JustinHorton » Thu Oct 04, 2018 11:57 am

Roger de Coverly wrote:
Thu Oct 04, 2018 11:10 am


In 2014, Kirsan was travelling the world meeting chess dignitaries and national politicians more often than not in the Company of the Russian Ambassador. Offers of scholarships in Russia were on the table. This was documented on the official FIDE website. That Russian support was not around in 2018.
Did anything of significance occur between 2014 and 2018?
Matthew Turner wrote:
Thu Oct 04, 2018 11:10 am

Not fantasy, relatively easy. You set up an organisation called the World Chess Federation, you take all the FIDE rated tournaments in the last two years and give all the players a World Chess Federation rating. Any country can join the WCF
I think we can identify some difficulties at this point
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Jonathan Bryant
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Re: Repercussions / Fallout from FIDE Elections?

Post by Jonathan Bryant » Thu Oct 04, 2018 1:28 pm

Matthew Turner wrote:
Thu Oct 04, 2018 10:38 am
Perhaps the answer then is for Rex Sinquefield to get his wallet out and set up a rival to FIDE.
Why not Karpov? It wasn’t that long ago that people were banging on about him being a billionaire. He can’t have spent it all already. How many stamps can one man buy?

Not that I think either scenario is particularly likely. Or desirable for that matter.

If Dvorkovich/Makro are a choice between 1 g4 and 1 h4 as your first move, a sole benefactor is what ...? 1 b4. 1 f4 perhaps. Better than the other two no doubt, but still less than entirely desireable on general principle. You do rather put yourself at risk of an Allen Stanford situation if that’s the road you choose to travel.
(https://streathambrixtonchess.blogspot. ... o-pay.html)

But then “while he had money to pay” does tend to be a lesson unlearned by those keen to leave the past in the past

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JustinHorton
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Re: Repercussions / Fallout from FIDE Elections?

Post by JustinHorton » Thu Oct 04, 2018 1:58 pm

Among the lessons unlearned (apart from do look gift horses in the mouth) are that these people tend to lose interest, or that they insist on everything being done their way, etcetcetc
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Kevin Thurlow
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Re: Repercussions / Fallout from FIDE Elections?

Post by Kevin Thurlow » Thu Oct 04, 2018 3:28 pm

"You set up an organisation called the World Chess Federation"

and get sued by Stan Vaughan!

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Matt Mackenzie
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Re: Repercussions / Fallout from FIDE Elections?

Post by Matt Mackenzie » Thu Oct 04, 2018 6:05 pm

Yes, because the previous schism from FIDE in the 1990s was such a great success :roll:
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Ian Thompson
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Re: Repercussions / Fallout from FIDE Elections?

Post by Ian Thompson » Thu Oct 04, 2018 7:51 pm

Matthew Turner wrote:
Thu Oct 04, 2018 11:10 am
Not fantasy, relatively easy. You set up an organisation called the World Chess Federation ...
They'd be too late -someone's already done that - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk%3AWo ... Federation (probably).

Chris Rice
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Re: Repercussions / Fallout from FIDE Elections?

Post by Chris Rice » Thu Oct 04, 2018 11:12 pm

Malcolm welcomes the action that the new regime are already taking on the Saudi Arabia issue:

Very positive! Dvorkovich requests the Presidential Board decision NOT to hold Rapid and Blitz Championships in Saudi Arabia if all countries are not invited be included in minutes of FIDE GA world rapid blitz. Written guarantee to be received by November 1.

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Re: Repercussions / Fallout from FIDE Elections?

Post by Chris Rice » Thu Oct 04, 2018 11:16 pm

Both Nigel Short and Dvorkovich during the election made statements that the World Championship prize fund was pretty much the minimum that could be offered. In response to this the largest Norwegian newspaper is carrying a story that Carlsen believes the AGON/FIDE structure gives no incentive to increase prizes. Carlsen is also saying the new FIDE president needs to "clean up a system that hasn't worked very well". Malcolm also agrees with this "Indeed the whole contract structured wrongly and needs revising".
Last edited by Chris Rice on Thu Oct 04, 2018 11:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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