What do you think the general purpose of corporate hospitality is?J T Melsom wrote: ↑Fri Oct 05, 2018 2:47 pmHow many delegates do you honestly believe were persuaded by the quality and extravagance of the parties?
Repercussions / Fallout from FIDE Elections?
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Re: Repercussions / Fallout from FIDE Elections?
"Do you play chess?"
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"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."
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Re: Repercussions / Fallout from FIDE Elections?
Honest Question John (I am asking as I attended one of the parties and didn't find it over extravagant and an excellent chance to catch up with old friends)
What do you think cost Makro more?
a) The parties and goodie bags
b) Makros meltdown in the hall on the Kremlin, his woeful presentation on why he should be still president and Zurabs blunder in upsetting practically all of Africa just before we voted
c) People were going to vote against him anyway?
d) Nigel withdrawing and endorsing AD.
I know from speaking to several fellow delegates that at least 7 fall under b) No one I have spoken to fall under a)
Personally I think it was a combination of b) and d). Nigel had withdrawn, there was no need for Makro to attack him in his speech!
What do you think cost Makro more?
a) The parties and goodie bags
b) Makros meltdown in the hall on the Kremlin, his woeful presentation on why he should be still president and Zurabs blunder in upsetting practically all of Africa just before we voted
c) People were going to vote against him anyway?
d) Nigel withdrawing and endorsing AD.
I know from speaking to several fellow delegates that at least 7 fall under b) No one I have spoken to fall under a)
Personally I think it was a combination of b) and d). Nigel had withdrawn, there was no need for Makro to attack him in his speech!
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Re: Repercussions / Fallout from FIDE Elections?
Gaining access to the decision makers in an hospitable environment. Only a fool would think that big contracts can be bought with fancy canapes and expensive champagne. Of course that's the corporate world. The world of FIDE may very well be different.JustinHorton wrote: ↑Fri Oct 05, 2018 2:49 pmWhat do you think the general purpose of corporate hospitality is?J T Melsom wrote: ↑Fri Oct 05, 2018 2:47 pmHow many delegates do you honestly believe were persuaded by the quality and extravagance of the parties?
Ah, but I was so much older then. I'm younger than that now.
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Re: Repercussions / Fallout from FIDE Elections?
'what is corporate hospitality for?'
To win friends and influence people. But policies matter as well don't they? Isn't the Bermuda party supposed to be an Olympiad highlight? Do the Bermudans run FIDE? I'm not denying the possibility of inducements, but to complain about the parties in two posts without reflecting on the policies might be too much/simplistic.
To win friends and influence people. But policies matter as well don't they? Isn't the Bermuda party supposed to be an Olympiad highlight? Do the Bermudans run FIDE? I'm not denying the possibility of inducements, but to complain about the parties in two posts without reflecting on the policies might be too much/simplistic.
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Re: Repercussions / Fallout from FIDE Elections?
Not to bribe people. In my world it's to thank and recognise loyal support and to recognise the value of the business given by the customer by giving something back.
UK law is pretty strict about bribery, though I doubt the standards are quite so rigorously applied in Batumi.
UK law is pretty strict about bribery, though I doubt the standards are quite so rigorously applied in Batumi.
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Re: Repercussions / Fallout from FIDE Elections?
They've not asked to, and I'm sure we both understand the difference between being offered hospitality by a political candidate and being invited to a party.J T Melsom wrote: ↑Fri Oct 05, 2018 3:00 pm'what is corporate hospitality for?'
To win friends and influence people. But policies matter as well don't they? Isn't the Bermuda party supposed to be an Olympiad highlight? Do the Bermudans run FIDE? .
"Do you play chess?"
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."
lostontime.blogspot.com
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."
lostontime.blogspot.com
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Re: Repercussions / Fallout from FIDE Elections?
It is also, patently, to win friends and influence people as Jonathan says, and there are reasons why there are rules in the civil service about accepting this stuff, and why there are Registers of Interests in Parliament and so on and so forth.Simon Brown wrote: ↑Fri Oct 05, 2018 3:04 pmNot to bribe people. In my world it's to thank and recognise loyal support and to recognise the value of the business given by the customer by giving something back.
Much of the time the people to whom it is offered aren't supposed to be showing "loyal support".
"Do you play chess?"
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."
lostontime.blogspot.com
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."
lostontime.blogspot.com
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Re: Repercussions / Fallout from FIDE Elections?
This is an interesting point. If the draw to decide the order of the speeches had gone differently, maybe Nigel's withdrawal would have had less/more impact and the tone/content of the speeches might have changed. Makro first, then the others might have not had quite the same impact, but would also not have given Makro a chance to respond. The order was Dvorkovich, Short, Makro.Andy Howie wrote: ↑Fri Oct 05, 2018 2:59 pmNigel had withdrawn, there was no need for Makro to attack him in his speech!
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Re: Repercussions / Fallout from FIDE Elections?
That certainly could not have worked better. First Dvorkovich gave his usual polished performance, then Short put the boot in, then it was Makro's turn. Had he gone first he might not have produced such a shambolic and embittered rant. But based on his first day's performance I think it's likely that he would have done. He was just gone.
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Re: Repercussions / Fallout from FIDE Elections?
I guess that's the difference between corporate hospitality and low-level incentivisation bordering on bribery. I would define giving freebies and booze to people you don't know as the latter rather than the former.JustinHorton wrote: ↑Fri Oct 05, 2018 3:08 pmIt is also, patently, to win friends and influence people as Jonathan says, and there are reasons why there are rules in the civil service about accepting this stuff, and why there are Registers of Interests in Parliament and so on and so forth.Simon Brown wrote: ↑Fri Oct 05, 2018 3:04 pmNot to bribe people. In my world it's to thank and recognise loyal support and to recognise the value of the business given by the customer by giving something back.
Much of the time the people to whom it is offered aren't supposed to be showing "loyal support".
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Re: Repercussions / Fallout from FIDE Elections?
Depends on the nature of the giving, and for that matter of the knowing. If I buy a complete stranger a drink in the pub because they happen to be there, so what. If I work for Expensive Flats Corporation and I take the Chief Planning Officer of Mega City Council, who I know well, to Wimbledon, what's that?
"Do you play chess?"
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."
lostontime.blogspot.com
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."
lostontime.blogspot.com
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Re: Repercussions / Fallout from FIDE Elections?
Count yourself lucky if you don't have to do training courses on this sort of thing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_C ... ctices_Act
I would be careful about your personal relationship with the Chief Planning Officer of Mega City Council, given he sounds like an official and Judge Dredd likely to apply penalties strictly.
I think Dvorkovich pitching the gifts and entertainment at a level he could defend if he had to, which is what you'd expect from someone with his background.
I would be careful about your personal relationship with the Chief Planning Officer of Mega City Council, given he sounds like an official and Judge Dredd likely to apply penalties strictly.
I think Dvorkovich pitching the gifts and entertainment at a level he could defend if he had to, which is what you'd expect from someone with his background.
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Re: Repercussions / Fallout from FIDE Elections?
Best guideline on all this - if it feels dodgy, it probably is.
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Re: Repercussions / Fallout from FIDE Elections?
Paul is correct, this was a streamlined operation, fully deniable. The party invitation didn't say who it was from. In the UK, election publications must carry a name and address.Paul Cooksey wrote: ↑Fri Oct 05, 2018 4:45 pmI think Dvorkovich pitching the gifts and entertainment at a level he could defend if he had to, which is what you'd expect from someone with his background.
I have yet to see a mermaid at a meeting of the English Chess Federation. There's usually an argument about the cost of biscuits. We're a dour lot down south.Andy Howie wrote: ↑Fri Oct 05, 2018 2:59 pm(I attended one of the parties and didn't find it over extravagant and an excellent chance to catch up with old friends)
I am sure you are right - other factors weighed more heavily. However, there is a serious point to be made about election expenses. Most democratic jurisdictions place a limit on how much each party can spend in order to maintain fairness. International sports federations are generally controlled by well-connected incumbents or state placemen. Truly independent candidates have no chance.Andy Howie wrote: ↑Fri Oct 05, 2018 2:59 pmWhat do you think cost Makro more?
a) The parties and goodie bags
Maybe policies should matter, but in practice tactics dominate strategy. There were no hustings at the Congress - so direct contact with delegates was essential to win votes. "One Federation One Vote" creates a range of opportunities to win votes.J T Melsom wrote: ↑Fri Oct 05, 2018 3:00 pmBut policies matter as well don't they? Isn't the Bermuda party supposed to be an Olympiad highlight?
Note that the Bermuda Party was held earlier in the Olympiad, prior to the rest day. It was a crowded social diary.
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Re: Repercussions / Fallout from FIDE Elections?
Both major candidates had stalls at the Olympiad. There were speeches at the Assembly.John Foley wrote: ↑Fri Oct 05, 2018 4:57 pmMaybe policies should matter, but in practice tactics dominate strategy. There were no hustings at the Congress - so direct contact with delegates was essential to win votes. "One Federation One Vote" creates a range of opportunities to win votes.
"Do you play chess?"
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."
lostontime.blogspot.com
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."
lostontime.blogspot.com