European Club Cup 11-19 October 2018

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Chris Rice
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Re: European Club Cup 11-19 October 2018

Post by Chris Rice » Thu Oct 18, 2018 9:47 am

Ben Purton wrote:
Thu Oct 18, 2018 9:23 am
Nick this one is much cooler...anyone who thinks the above is entitled to this idea but the fact is.

We love to play the best players and this ensures that.
We love that this tournament supports chess as a profession for both Female and Male players.

You lads seem quite focussed when my players mess up high computer evals and less positives when you have 2 English teams on the top 10 boards.
Yes indeed, both Wood Green and Grantham Sharks are performing well above their seeding level so good luck in the last round Ben.

Mick Norris
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Re: European Club Cup 11-19 October 2018

Post by Mick Norris » Thu Oct 18, 2018 9:55 am

Christopher Kreuzer wrote:
Thu Oct 18, 2018 9:21 am
Can anyone confirm whether a loss by Carlsen (e.g. if he needs to try and win due to the match situation) would see him drop below Caruana? I think a draw or win keep Carlsen as number one.

Ding Liren should be able to keep his run going. Does anyone know what his next events are?

What tie-breaks are being used in this event?
According to Tarjei, a draw loses him 1.1 points but keeps him 3 ahead of Caruana (which would mean that draws in the WC match had no effect on their ratings), but a loss would take Magnus down to 2829.7, behind Caruana's 2832.3

Ding's playing in the Isle of Man which starts Saturday I think

Tiebreaks are given at the bottom of the standings though not sure they are correct; it seems likely the same ones are being used as the Olympiad
Any postings on here represent my personal views and should not be taken as representative of the Manchester Chess Federation www.manchesterchess.co.uk

Mick Norris
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Re: European Club Cup 11-19 October 2018

Post by Mick Norris » Thu Oct 18, 2018 10:37 am

Vitiugov - Howell is 1st v 3rd for the board 2 medal
Any postings on here represent my personal views and should not be taken as representative of the Manchester Chess Federation www.manchesterchess.co.uk

Nick Burrows
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Re: European Club Cup 11-19 October 2018

Post by Nick Burrows » Thu Oct 18, 2018 11:09 am

Ben Purton wrote:
Thu Oct 18, 2018 9:23 am
Nick this one is much cooler...anyone who thinks the above is entitled to this idea but the fact is.
Dont get me wrong, this is a great competition that has its place and that i have enjoyed following.

The idea of finding the best genuine club in Europe, rather than manufactured ones is also appealing.

NickFaulks
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Re: European Club Cup 11-19 October 2018

Post by NickFaulks » Thu Oct 18, 2018 11:20 am

Nick Burrows wrote:
Thu Oct 18, 2018 11:09 am
The idea of finding the best genuine club in Europe, rather than manufactured ones is also appealing.
Really? The winner is always going to be the most manufactured you can get away with within the rules.

Nick Burrows
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Re: European Club Cup 11-19 October 2018

Post by Nick Burrows » Thu Oct 18, 2018 11:56 am

NickFaulks wrote:
Thu Oct 18, 2018 11:20 am
Nick Burrows wrote:
Thu Oct 18, 2018 11:09 am
The idea of finding the best genuine club in Europe, rather than manufactured ones is also appealing.
Really? The winner is always going to be the most manufactured you can get away with within the rules.
Well if the rules specify being a genuine club member based on games played for said club then theres no real getting around it.

The team element in this competition is largely a charade, with some teams never having even played together before. I find the largest checkbook wins phenomena in the Premier League to have taken the soul out of club football (for all the benefits of better players etc), but even there they are still genuine teams

Phil Neatherway
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Re: European Club Cup 11-19 October 2018

Post by Phil Neatherway » Thu Oct 18, 2018 12:35 pm

Nick,
I think the largest cheque book also wins in the 4NCL!

Nick Burrows
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Re: European Club Cup 11-19 October 2018

Post by Nick Burrows » Thu Oct 18, 2018 12:56 pm

It certainly does!

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Christopher Kreuzer
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Re: European Club Cup 11-19 October 2018

Post by Christopher Kreuzer » Thu Oct 18, 2018 2:59 pm

Mick Norris wrote:
Thu Oct 18, 2018 9:55 am
Christopher Kreuzer wrote:
Thu Oct 18, 2018 9:21 am
Can anyone confirm whether a loss by Carlsen (e.g. if he needs to try and win due to the match situation) would see him drop below Caruana? I think a draw or win keep Carlsen as number one.

Ding Liren should be able to keep his run going. Does anyone know what his next events are?

What tie-breaks are being used in this event?
According to Tarjei, a draw loses him 1.1 points but keeps him 3 ahead of Caruana (which would mean that draws in the WC match had no effect on their ratings), but a loss would take Magnus down to 2829.7, behind Caruana's 2832.3

Ding's playing in the Isle of Man which starts Saturday I think

Tiebreaks are given at the bottom of the standings though not sure they are correct; it seems likely the same ones are being used as the Olympiad
Thanks. Adding a note here that Ding Liren is not playing in the Isle of Man event. He is listed for it on https://2700chess.com/ but http://iominternationalchess.com/ (which is obviously more authoritative) says " updated 18 September: Ding Liren withdrawn". If Ding Liren manages to avoid losing today, then he is still a game or two short of Tal's record. So where he plays next is not clear. 2700chess.com's Twitter stream states that Ding's game against Svidler in round 4 of the European Club Cup 2018 was his (Ding's) 91st game unbeaten. So his game today (against Efimenko) will be his 94th. Tal's record is 95, and there are also (not 100% verified as far as I know, or at least not as exhaustively checked) claims of 110 games unbeaten by Tiviakov and Lalic, though against inferior opposition compared to Ding Liren (and probably Tal's opposition as well).

[Checking such records is complicated by the existence of rapidplay games in databases that are not always clearly marked as such.]

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Christopher Kreuzer
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Re: European Club Cup 11-19 October 2018

Post by Christopher Kreuzer » Thu Oct 18, 2018 4:20 pm

Things going badly wrong for Carlsen and his team. Predojevic (the hero of a previous round) has blundered horribly and lost. Grandelius is probably losing, and to cap it all off, Carlsen may lose if Svidler can find 37.Bd5 (though maybe not, and now moot as Svidler played a different move).

Roger de Coverly
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Re: European Club Cup 11-19 October 2018

Post by Roger de Coverly » Thu Oct 18, 2018 4:36 pm

Christopher Kreuzer wrote:
Thu Oct 18, 2018 4:20 pm
Carlsen may lose if Svidler can find 37.Bd5 (though maybe not, and now moot as Svidler played a different move).
move 40



Svidler offering a King and pawn ending which engines seem to think is a draw. In one variation they reach King & Queen v King and Pawn one square from queening. It's an a pawn though, so draw.



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Christopher Kreuzer
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Re: European Club Cup 11-19 October 2018

Post by Christopher Kreuzer » Thu Oct 18, 2018 5:03 pm

Complex king and pawn endgame. The online engines seem to be mis-evaluating it. Very difficult to analyse.

EDIT: Interesting how easily GMs see the lines where the kings go from one side of the board to other, but the position is still drawn. Lesser players would go a bit crazy trying to count from move 41 to move 63.
Last edited by Christopher Kreuzer on Thu Oct 18, 2018 5:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Mike Truran
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Re: European Club Cup 11-19 October 2018

Post by Mike Truran » Thu Oct 18, 2018 5:10 pm

Looks like Vallejo Pons has just dropped the cup. :shock:

Mick Norris
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Re: European Club Cup 11-19 October 2018

Post by Mick Norris » Thu Oct 18, 2018 5:13 pm

Christopher Kreuzer wrote:
Thu Oct 18, 2018 2:59 pm
Thanks. Adding a note here that Ding Liren is not playing in the Isle of Man event. He is listed for it on https://2700chess.com/ but http://iominternationalchess.com/ (which is obviously more authoritative) says " updated 18 September: Ding Liren withdrawn". If Ding Liren manages to avoid losing today, then he is still a game or two short of Tal's record. So where he plays next is not clear. 2700chess.com's Twitter stream states that Ding's game against Svidler in round 4 of the European Club Cup 2018 was his (Ding's) 91st game unbeaten. So his game today (against Efimenko) will be his 94th. Tal's record is 95, and there are also (not 100% verified as far as I know, or at least not as exhaustively checked) claims of 110 games unbeaten by Tiviakov and Lalic, though against inferior opposition compared to Ding Liren (and probably Tal's opposition as well).

[Checking such records is complicated by the existence of rapidplay games in databases that are not always clearly marked as such.]
Ding has won today, extending his record live rating to 2815.5 (which will presumably be his record actual rating of 2816 next month)
Any postings on here represent my personal views and should not be taken as representative of the Manchester Chess Federation www.manchesterchess.co.uk

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Christopher Kreuzer
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Re: European Club Cup 11-19 October 2018

Post by Christopher Kreuzer » Thu Oct 18, 2018 5:16 pm

Mike Truran wrote:
Thu Oct 18, 2018 5:10 pm
Looks like Vallejo Pons has just dropped the cup. :shock:
Oh dear. Promoting the pawn on d8 on move 40 instead of playing 40.Qe8 first...

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