Re: Altibox Norway 2019 - the future of chess?
Posted: Sat Jun 08, 2019 8:50 pm
A win for Yu in standard and wins for Carlsen & Anand in armageddon, the other two being drawn. Anand-Ding was an entertaining miniature.
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Pity, because I thought the format was a promising one. I agree with Paolo's suggested improvement but, as he said, that is a minor issue.Matt Mackenzie wrote: ↑Tue Jun 11, 2019 1:04 pmIndeed, it is fair to say this particular experiment has not been an unalloyed success.
It is evidently not today, but there is going to come a time when the chess world accepts that the problem is that with the standard of chess being what it is, when the top 10 players in the world play chess against each other at a standardplay time limit, about 75% of the games are going to be drawn. It doesn't matter what you follow the drawn game with. We've seen the same pattern over many years now, so it's not clear to me why people still think that tinkering around the edges is going to solve the problem.NickFaulks wrote: ↑Tue Jun 11, 2019 1:23 pmPity, because I thought the format was a promising one. I agree with Paolo's suggested improvement but, as he said, that is a minor issue.Matt Mackenzie wrote: ↑Tue Jun 11, 2019 1:04 pmIndeed, it is fair to say this particular experiment has not been an unalloyed success.
I think the problem lies with the prize distribution. Once you accept that you aren't going to finish near the top, the scoring system is largely irrelevant.
Perhaps there is a reason why the Norwegian organisers wanted such a big chunk of the prize fund to go to first place.
That's nothing new though, the top players used to complain of the lack of variety in the inter-war years.Kevin Thurlow wrote: ↑Tue Jun 11, 2019 5:20 pmBut surely the top players get a bit fed up seeing the same opponents every tournament?
I'm not convinced, since the big culprit may be opening analysis, assisted by computers. At club level where I play, and I think also quite a lot higher, this is not too important because "there's many a slip". However, the top players do seem able to envisage at move one the defensible ending which they intend to reach with Black and then draw it.Alex Holowczak wrote: ↑Tue Jun 11, 2019 2:40 pmIf more decisive games are desired while maintaining a reasonable sort of standard, then the solution is to play a rapidplay time limit.
Take a look at the Chess World Cup, and you occasionally get a good run from an underdog, a bit like you would in a Grand Slam tennis tournament, or the UK Snooker Championship. This is usually accompanied by wails of objection, and noise that this is proof that the whole format is unsuitable for a chess tournament, and what are FIDE thinking for organising such a thing?Kevin Thurlow wrote: ↑Tue Jun 11, 2019 5:20 pmThere is a lot to be said for that. And the occasional tournament with only top players is good. Even so, whereas the 100th ranked player might get a set, frame, leg, hole etc., in the appropriate sport, and celebrate, in chess, you probably just lose.
Perhaps more importantly from a "chess as a professional sport" perspective, rather than the series of glorified exhibitions we have now, do the spectators get a bit fed up of seeing the same players every tournament? I know I do, but I seem to have different views on the whole subject compared to many.Kevin Thurlow wrote: ↑Tue Jun 11, 2019 5:20 pmBut surely the top players get a bit fed up seeing the same opponents every tournament?
I think statistics would back up that there are fewer draws in rapidplay than there are in standardplay. I'm quite content to define rapidplay as chess "in broad terms". I don't understand why the chess public gnashes its teeth at the thought of Rapidplay.NickFaulks wrote: ↑Tue Jun 11, 2019 7:03 pmI'm not convinced, since the big culprit may be opening analysis, assisted by computers. At club level where I play, and I think also quite a lot higher, this is not too important because "there's many a slip". However, the top players do seem able to envisage at move one the defensible ending which they intend to reach with Black and then draw it.Alex Holowczak wrote: ↑Tue Jun 11, 2019 2:40 pmIf more decisive games are desired while maintaining a reasonable sort of standard, then the solution is to play a rapidplay time limit.
I shall not accept that chess, defined in broad terms, is dead until 960 has been given a serious try.
There are intermediate options.Alex Holowczak wrote: ↑Tue Jun 11, 2019 2:40 pmIf more decisive games are desired while maintaining a reasonable sort of standard, then the solution is to play a rapidplay time limit.
That sort of thing has been done in other sports. For instance, javelins were made heavier so that athletes couldn't throw them so far.NickFaulks wrote: ↑Tue Jun 11, 2019 9:32 pmAll of the suggestions for making top level chess more entertaining seem to involve finding ways to ensure that the players make more mistakes.
Perhaps this insight could be applied to other sports too. In cricket, batsmen are hitting boundaries with too much ease, so let's tie their bootlaces together. Just one idea, others are welcomed.
I don't think that today's reliance on prepared opening analysis is an intended consequence of the rules, rather an unanticipated limitation on the game. It would not trouble me if players were forced to think for themselves much earlier than at present, perhaps even at move one.David Sedgwick wrote: ↑Tue Jun 11, 2019 10:24 pmAnd wouldn't wider adoption of Chess960 be finding a way "to ensure that the players make more mistakes"?