English Chess Forum

From todays Guardian

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/ ... m-misogyny

"with far more boys learning to play the game than girls"

In my own ( fairly limited ) experience of London primary schools, that is simply not true. What have others found?

The North Devon secondary schools' events I've arbited at have had far more boys than girls playing.

IM Jack Rudd wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 29, 2021 1:02 pm

The North Devon secondary schools' events I've arbited at have had far more boys than girls playing.

In secondary schools that is certainly true, but the quote referred to "learning to play the game", which is more likely to happen in primary schools.

What seems to happen is that lots of girls learn to play in primary school, many enjoying the game and reaching a level of proficiency, but then they decide to devote their limited free time to other things.

"with far more boys learning to play the game than girls"

I think at Primary School level, it is less likely, but many of the girls disappear later. A colleague at work said her daughter was really keen and sought advice on coaching, but then a bit later, the daughter decided ballet and gymnastics were more interesting. This is only a sample of 1 of course.

I think Jovanka is right - if one sex gets outnumbered, the smaller group probably feels more uncomfortable.

Doubtless there are plenty of women who think they are missing out by not being a member of the cabal at, say, the local golf club. I can't imagine there are many who take a look at their local chess club and bitterly regret that they gave the game up as a teenager.

NickFaulks wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 29, 2021 12:06 pm

"with far more boys learning to play the game than girls"

In my own ( fairly limited ) experience of London primary schools, that is simply not true. What have others found?

In the Oxford all-play-alls I have been running the overall ratio is about 2:1 to 3:1 boys I guesstimate, but in the more beginner sections the ratio has been equal or with more girls.

Without wishing to downplay women's expeiences of sexism in chess. I would suggest that the largest driver of the disparity in numbers of male and females continuing to play the game as they get older, is down to the male propensity towards the single minded pursuit of goals at the expense of all other facets of life. In short, men are more obsessive.

To say that Polgar "tortured Kasparov at the board" is maybe just a slight exaggeration given their overall record!

(though equally, if they went down that road then its maybe slightly surprising THAT incident wasn't mentioned)

Nick Burrows wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 29, 2021 2:52 pm

Without wishing to downplay women's expeiences of sexism in chess. I would suggest that the largest driver of the disparity in numbers of male and females continuing to play the game as they get older, is down to the male propensity towards the single minded pursuit of goals at the expense of all other facets of life

Is this the explanation the women and girls give though

JustinHorton wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 29, 2021 4:29 pm

Is this the explanation the women and girls give though

We don't know, because the vast majority are not asked. It's also more likely that we will hear about cases where there is a genuine grievance.

The "more girls than boys learning chess" statement comes from the development biologist Emma Hilton. Teaching chess as a compulsory subject in UK primary schools is a relatively recent development so this may come from data based on a survey of girls and boys experience that goes back further than this or from some international source/ survey.

Nick Burrows wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 29, 2021 4:40 pm

JustinHorton wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 29, 2021 4:29 pm

Is this the explanation the women and girls give though

We don't know, because the vast majority are not asked.

Well no, but that would be true of almost any formal or informal survey of opinion, no?

Is there a name for this custom of men discussing matters that primarily concern women?

Mike Gunn wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 29, 2021 4:44 pm

The "more girls than boys learning chess" statement comes from the development biologist Emma Hilton. Teaching chess as a compulsory subject in UK primary schools is a relatively recent development so this may come from data based on a survey of girls and boys experience that goes back further than this or from some international source/ survey.

I'd imagined when reading it that Emma would be thinking about some countries where girls have fewer educational opportunities than boys rather than something she's observed in Manchester, or the UK more generally

I'd agree that chess is sexist