Women's In-Tournament Training

Discuss anything you like about women's chess at home and abroad.
Jon D'Souza-Eva

Re: Women's In-Tournament Training

Post by Jon D'Souza-Eva » Thu Mar 03, 2011 12:34 pm

I don't think we should have anything Irish on the English Chess Forum for a while.

LozCooper

Re: Women's In-Tournament Training

Post by LozCooper » Thu Mar 03, 2011 12:44 pm

Jon D'Souza-Eva wrote:I don't think we should have anything Irish on the English Chess Forum for a while.
I'm just relieved the match didn't occur while I was in Bunratty :oops:

Sean Hewitt

Re: Women's In-Tournament Training

Post by Sean Hewitt » Thu Mar 03, 2011 1:52 pm

LozCooper wrote:
Jon D'Souza-Eva wrote:I don't think we should have anything Irish on the English Chess Forum for a while.
I'm just relieved the match didn't occur while I was in Bunratty :oops:
Last time I was in Bunratty Ireland beat England at rugby at Croke Park. It was good fun!

David Sedgwick
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Re: Women's In-Tournament Training

Post by David Sedgwick » Thu Mar 03, 2011 2:32 pm

IM Jack Rudd wrote:Please calm down, everyone.
Jack, I agree, but please remember how worked up I get about large photographs.

Simon Spivack
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Re: Women's In-Tournament Training

Post by Simon Spivack » Thu Mar 03, 2011 3:30 pm

As the prison governor in Cool Hand Luke was fond of saying:
What we have here is a failure to communicate.
A very common solecism is to conflate "you" with "one". It happens so often that I instinctively check for both when parsing. Thus when Sabrina addressed Alan:
I know that you might say that they shouldn't play then if they aren't strong enough - but I don't think this is true.
I parsed it as:
I know that one might say that they (i.e. female players) shouldn't be allowed to play if they aren't good enough; however, I don't believe this (the perceived lack of playing strength) to be true.
Another way to parse what Sabrina wrote is:
I know that one might say that they (i.e. female players) shouldn't be allowed to play if they aren't good enough; however, I don't believe in this approach.
With either construction, I don't accept that Sabrina was being deliberately offensive.

Posting in an ill humour is often a mistake. One I have sometimes committed myself. It can lead to an escalation, as has happened here.

Like many, I consider the limited appeal of competitive chess to females to be a problem that should be tackled. It must be quite daunting to wander into a club as the only female and being conscious of being ogled at by some. I should stress, having brought this up, that chess clubs are very safe environments for women. I've never heard of anything serious happening, I can't recall any incident. I am open to being corrected.

This initiative of Sabrina's, Jovanka's and Sean's intuitively appeals to me. The downside is limited, if only on the practical grounds that going too far to promote female chess would undermine the financial viability of the concern. To try for something more ambitious requires something English chess lacks: money.

To see the scale of the challenge, one can look at Georgia, which possesses a comparatively favourable atmosphere for female chess; still, looking at http://ratings.fide.com/advaction.phtml ... e&line=asc , one sees that there are 829 male players listed, whereas http://ratings.fide.com/advaction.phtml ... e&line=asc gives just 325 females. Certainly, this is not definitive proof that a lot more males than females play chess in Georgia; nonetheless, it is hardly encouraging for those looking for gender parity.

Sabrina Chevannes
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Re: Women's In-Tournament Training

Post by Sabrina Chevannes » Thu Mar 03, 2011 6:34 pm

Thank you Simon. I think that most people did read it like that and thank you for clarifying what I meant. I had hoped that I didn't have to write perfect Queen's English to be understood correctly on this forum.

Anyway, what you have put about female chess is very true. Unfortunately being such a large ratio of men:women, women do feel targetted and this makes most women feel uncomfortable. I actually know of one who stopped playing in the 4ncl due to being "harassed" constantly by men. It can be annoying.

However, I agree with you that chess clubs are a safe environment for women as I have not had any bad experiences like that at any, but it is understandable that some women are wary of this.

Going to a chess tournament alone as a female is also rather daunting, which is why I would like to get more women together at these events. Then, in the future, even if we are not offering coaching, hoopefully some of the women will get to know each other and can organise to go together to these events and enjoy it more.

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Gareth Harley-Yeo
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Re: Women's In-Tournament Training

Post by Gareth Harley-Yeo » Thu Mar 03, 2011 6:43 pm

IM Jack Rudd wrote:Please calm down, everyone.

Image
Is there a milk famine in Ireland now? :shock:

Sean Hewitt

Re: Women's In-Tournament Training

Post by Sean Hewitt » Thu Mar 03, 2011 6:43 pm

Currently, 15% of the entries for Uxbridge are female. A far higher percentage than we usually have.

Sabrina Chevannes
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Re: Women's In-Tournament Training

Post by Sabrina Chevannes » Thu Mar 03, 2011 7:25 pm

Sean Hewitt wrote:Currently, 15% of the entries for Uxbridge are female. A far higher percentage than we usually have.
FANTASTIC!!! That's great news Sean :)

Eoin Devane
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Re: Women's In-Tournament Training

Post by Eoin Devane » Thu Mar 03, 2011 7:33 pm

Jon D'Souza-Eva wrote:I don't think we should have anything Irish on the English Chess Forum for a while.
I'll just go, shall I? :cry:

What a match it was! :lol:

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Carl Hibbard
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Re: Women's In-Tournament Training

Post by Carl Hibbard » Thu Mar 03, 2011 7:39 pm

David Sedgwick wrote:
IM Jack Rudd wrote:Please calm down, everyone.
Jack, I agree, but please remember how worked up I get about large photographs.
It is a little on the large size :roll:
Cheers
Carl Hibbard

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Carl Hibbard
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Re: Women's In-Tournament Training

Post by Carl Hibbard » Thu Mar 03, 2011 7:42 pm

Alan Burke wrote:Sabrina, in your very first reply to my original question, you stated about women ..''being surrounded by discouraging men.'' Surely that is an insult to many male players.
Can we please not just stick to the point of this thread as I don't think any of this nonsense really helps?
Cheers
Carl Hibbard

Alex Holowczak
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Re: Women's In-Tournament Training

Post by Alex Holowczak » Thu Mar 03, 2011 8:04 pm

Eoin Devane wrote:
Jon D'Souza-Eva wrote:I don't think we should have anything Irish on the English Chess Forum for a while.
I'll just go, shall I? :cry:

What a match it was! :lol:
You were English last year, so I think you're let in that way. :wink:

Eoin Devane
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Re: Women's In-Tournament Training

Post by Eoin Devane » Thu Mar 03, 2011 8:51 pm

Alex Holowczak wrote:You were English last year, so I think you're let in that way. :wink:
No, I had no chess nationality last year. :shock: That doesn't mean I was English! But I'm relieved that you're happy for me to stay. :D

Regarding the topic, I think that any initiative that encourages the growth of women's chess is good, and Sean, Sabrina and Jovanka all deserve to be applauded for putting their heads above the parapet and doing something innovative.

Alan Burke

Re: Women's In-Tournament Training

Post by Alan Burke » Thu Mar 03, 2011 11:37 pm

Sabrina - Let's just agree there seems to have been a toal misunderstanding on both sides in this case.

To put the record straight, I have NEVER been against women playing chess in any form, I originally just wanted to clarify the reason why the free offer was made and Sean gave me a very acceptable reply. As you have stated, there are probably many in the chess world who have often resented such favouritism, but unless someone asks why there are such occurances then nobody will ever be given a reason and those feelings will continue.

I think you wrongly took my question as an attack by me on women in chess, whilst I probably misinterpreted your reply of ''... I know that you might say that they shouldn't play then if they aren't strong enough'', as you trying to make me out to be against such women.

The only other point I will make at this time is that wasn't only on behalf of men that I asked such a question as I know of several mothers of boys who have taken part in the UK Chess Challenge and have themselves been unhappy that their sons have not had the same opportunity to progress in the tournament as some girls who have actually achieved a lesser score yet still gone through to the next stage. Therefore, on those occasions it is actually females who are questioning the benefits given to the girls - perhaps I should have got one of those ladies to submit the question so as to prevent any repost of possible sexism. However, unless those mothers can be given a reasonable answer to why their sons are not treated in same way as the girls, they will continue to think that the system is being unfair to them - and surely there can be nothing wrong in them asking the question ''why does that happen ?''

Sabrina, I therefore apologise if my original post was not clear enough to be understood as just a genuine question to establish the reasoning behind Sean's offer, whilst I hope you will accept that the written word is sometimes not the best medium in which to express one's true meanings over a certain issue.

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