Women's In-Tournament Training

[David Sedgwick]

However , I notice that in the coming Nottingham Congress in April there are free entries for Juniors

I actually think it is free entry to Nottinghamshire juniors only, here are the conditions

3. Notts Junior

To qualify as Notts Junior, entitled to free entry in the Rapidplay / Congress, you should be U18 on 1st September 2010 and one of the following:

a.Born in Nottinghamshire
b.Resident in Nottinghamshire
c.Attendance at a school or college in Nottinghamshire
d.A member of a club in Nottinghamshire
e.A member of a club outside Nottinghamshire, but affiliated to Nottinghamshire Chess Association (Grantham, Long Eaton)

That strikes me as very bureaucratic, and indeed difficult to police.........Chess organisers must like creating work for themselves with overly bureaucratic rules.

The rules are almost identical to those which govern eligibility to represent a county in the ECF Counties Championships. No doubt your post will gladden the hearts of John Saunders, Roger de Coverly and others who've criticised those rules.

Suppose I'm an ungraded player living just over the border. I might write my address as some town just inside the border to get free entry. If it's my first congress, Notts CA would be none-the-wiser.

Yes, that could happen. Equally a player who lives 200 miles away could give a false address.

However, most players are honest and aren't going to commit fraud just to save themselves an entry fee.

[Ian Kingston]

However , I notice that in the coming Nottingham Congress in April there are free entries for Juniors

I actually think it is free entry to Nottinghamshire juniors only, here are the conditions

3. Notts Junior

To qualify as Notts Junior, entitled to free entry in the Rapidplay / Congress, you should be U18 on 1st September 2010 and one of the following:

a.Born in Nottinghamshire
b.Resident in Nottinghamshire
c.Attendance at a school or college in Nottinghamshire
d.A member of a club in Nottinghamshire
e.A member of a club outside Nottinghamshire, but affiliated to Nottinghamshire Chess Association (Grantham, Long Eaton)

That strikes me as very bureaucratic, and indeed difficult to police. Suppose I'm an ungraded player living just over the border. I might write my address as some town just inside the border to get free entry. If it's my first congress, Notts CA would be none-the-wiser.

Chess organisers must like creating work for themselves with overly bureaucratic rules.

You might think that it's a problem, but it's not. The junior organisers in Nottinghamshire are very active and know almost everyone who's likely to want to play. Anyone local and keen to play in the congress is almost certainly known to the organisers from other junior events, such as the East Midlands Junior Grand Prix. The rules are there for the sake of clarity.

The initiative has boosted attendance at the congress, increased takings from the sale of refreshments, and encouraged lots of children to play who might not otherwise have done so. In return for giving free entry to juniors, Nottingham Boys High School provides the venue for free. Everybody gains from the arrangement.

[Sean Hewitt]

Sean - thanks for the explanation, although I would hope that Jack's point (b) would have not no influence on your decision to give the free offer.

I wouldn't quite put it as Jack did, but I do hope that a few more women make for a better overall environment for the weekend.

Eight of the eighty players at last weeks Brighton International were female. I think it made a noticeably more pleasant chess experience.

[Alex Holowczak]

The rules are almost identical to those which govern eligibility to represent a county in the ECF Counties Championships. No doubt your post will gladden the hearts of John Saunders, Roger de Coverly and others who've criticised those rules.

The difference with the Counties Championship is that they'll either play for a club already (which can be looked up), or if ungraded, would have had to go through the process of registering them, where those criteria would be gathered. For an event of the scale of the Counties Championship, where a high level of maintenance is required anyway, it seems appropriate.

Yes, that could happen. Equally a player who lives 200 miles away could give a false address.

However, most players are honest and aren't going to commit fraud just to save themselves an entry fee.

Indeed, but it just seems a strange provision to add. I found the run up to a congress far too time consuming to be checking things like that.

You might think that it's a problem, but it's not. The junior organisers in Nottinghamshire are very active and know almost everyone who's likely to want to play. Anyone local and keen to play in the congress is almost certainly known to the organisers from other junior events, such as the East Midlands Junior Grand Prix. The rules are there for the sake of clarity.

The initiative has boosted attendance at the congress, increased takings from the sale of refreshments, and encouraged lots of children to play who might not otherwise have done so. In return for giving free entry to juniors, Nottingham Boys High School provides the venue for free. Everybody gains from the arrangement.

This is all wonderful, but why just Nottinghamshire juniors? Why not all juniors? That could encourage even more juniors, and provide even more benefits that you describe here.

[Richard Bates]

This is all wonderful, but why just Nottinghamshire juniors? Why not all juniors? That could encourage even more juniors, and provide even more benefits that you describe here.

Perhaps because they particularly want to encourage... Nottinghamshire juniors, who may go on to benefit Nottinghamshire chess? It is perfectly normal for congresses to seek to encourage local players, whether juniors or otherwise. Some might do it with reduced entry fees, some with special prizes.

[Ian Kingston]

This is all wonderful, but why just Nottinghamshire juniors? Why not all juniors? That could encourage even more juniors, and provide even more benefits that you describe here.

Well, it is the Nottingham Congress, run by the Nottinghamshire Chess Association and held at Nottingham Boys High School - you might notice a theme there.

More seriously: space is limited, and I can't imagine local players would be too amused if their entries were turned away because too many out-of-county juniors had taken up the available places without paying. Also, too many free entries would damage the congress's finances. A balance has to be struck.

This is a long way from the thread topic. I'll leave it here unless anyone wants to take it to a more appropriate thread.

[Alex Holowczak]

This is all wonderful, but why just Nottinghamshire juniors? Why not all juniors? That could encourage even more juniors, and provide even more benefits that you describe here.

Well, it is the Nottingham Congress, run by the Nottinghamshire Chess Association and held at Nottingham Boys High School - you might notice a theme there.

But it's also in England, graded by the English Chess Federation and held at a school in England.

Personally, I don't have the time to go around checking things like this for the tournaments I'm involved with. If other congress organisers do, then so be it.

[Richard Bates]

This is all wonderful, but why just Nottinghamshire juniors? Why not all juniors? That could encourage even more juniors, and provide even more benefits that you describe here.

Well, it is the Nottingham Congress, run by the Nottinghamshire Chess Association and held at Nottingham Boys High School - you might notice a theme there.

But it's also in England, graded by the English Chess Federation and held at a school in England.

Well if the ECF are putting up their own money for the tournament, as opposed to making money out of the tournament (through game fees) then perhaps they might have a right to some say in entry fee policy.

[Alex Holowczak]

Well if the ECF are putting up their own money for the tournament, as opposed to making money out of the tournament (through game fees) then perhaps they might have a right to some say in entry fee policy.

Quite. I completely understood the point about it being run by the Nottinghamshire CA. I'm just not a big fan of the principle.

[Alan Burke]

Sabrina Chevannes wrote (in a direct comment to me) ...
I know that you might say that they shouldn't play then if they aren't strong enough - but I don't think this is true.
--------

You KNOW that do you ??? That's perculiar, because it appears you think you know more about me than I do. When did I ever say that women should not be allowed to play in such events ?

This totally false remark seems an attempt to just try and neutralise any counter-argument and gain support for your own point of view, irrespective of the fact that your comment is totally untrue.

Contrary to your belief, I would NEVER prevent females from entering any such competition - I was just making a genuine enquiry as to why they should be given preferential treatment. If there is a good reason, then fair enough, but unless someone asks the question then people will never get an answer.

Yes, I think it's unfair that the women's champion at Wimbledon now gets the same prize money as the Mens' champion, even though she only needs to play 3/5ths of a match played by the man - but it seems that any man who makes such a complaint is then immediately branded himself as sexist. I have the greatest respect for the way Emily Pankhurst fought for the equal rights of women, but if those rights have now gone past being just equal, then why shouldn't men make similar representations for their equality ?

[Sebastian Stone]

If you think women have more rights than men you have more to worry about than preferential treatment designed to attract more women to chess.

[Sabrina Chevannes]

Sabrina Chevannes wrote (in a direct comment to me) ...
I know that you might say that they shouldn't play then if they aren't strong enough - but I don't think this is true.
--------

You KNOW that do you ??? That's perculiar, because it appears you think you know more about me than I do. When did I ever say that women should not be allowed to play in such events ?

This totally false remark seems an attempt to just try and neutralise any counter-argument and gain support for your own point of view, irrespective of the fact that your comment is totally untrue.

Contrary to your belief, I would NEVER prevent females from entering any such competition - I was just making a genuine enquiry as to why they should be given preferential treatment. If there is a good reason, then fair enough, but unless someone asks the question then people will never get an answer.

Yes, I think it's unfair that the women's champion at Wimbledon now gets the same prize money as the Mens' champion, even though she only needs to play 3/5ths of a match played by the man - but it seems that any man who makes such a complaint is then immediately branded himself as sexist. I have the greatest respect for the way Emily Pankhurst fought for the equal rights of women, but if those rights have now gone past being just equal, then why shouldn't men make similar representations for their equality ?

There's a key word in what i said - that is MIGHT. I know that people MIGHT say anything, because might suggests that they could or they couldn't.

But the defensive nature of your message is a classic sign of guilt. Guilty of what... only you know. I won't try and say that I know why, because I might be "thinking I know more about you than I do" or I might be attempting "o just try and neutralise any counter-argument and gain support for your own point of view, irrespective of the fact that your comment is totally untrue".

(Notice the use of the word MIGHT again!)

[LozCooper]

At risk of getting the thread back onto topic I think Sean's offer is a welcome initiative and I hope that enough girls and women take advantage of the free entry and very reasonably priced coaching. Even if the coaching doesn't directly improve their results in the event it will hopefully give their future preparation a bit more structure and show them how experienced players prepare for games. I am only too aware that some of the girls who travel to European and World events have little or no coaching outside these events and so a chance to work with two England internationals would be great for them.

[Alan Burke]

Sabrinna .. rather than try to be a barrack-room lawyer with your use of dictionary terms, or a psychologist with your views on how people show guilt, why not just try have a sensible discussion at the matter in hand ?

All I originally asked was a simple question as to why such a discrimination was being made due to someone's gender. Sean replied with his reasons for doing so and I appreciate his point of view, but rather than you doing the same, you have tried to make out that women have always been oppressed in the chess world. (ie, you wrote .... What Sean has enabled is the encouragement to those females ... rather than being surrounded by discouraging men.)

I well understand you are doing the best for woman-kind, but you should also appreciate the alternative point of view.

[LozCooper]

Sabrinna .. rather than try to be a barrack-room lawyer with your use of dictionary terms, or a psychologist with your views on how people show guilt, why not just try have a sensible discussion at the matter in hand ?

All I originally asked was a simple question as to why such a discrimination was being made due to someone's gender. Sean replied with his reasons for doing so and I appreciate his point of view, but rather than you doing the same, you have tried to make out that women have always been oppressed in the chess world. (ie, you wrote .... What Sean has enabled is the encouragement to those females ... rather than being surrounded by discouraging men.)

I well understand you are doing the best for woman-kind, but you should also appreciate the alternative point of view.

Is it really necessary to use this thread for a debate on the merits of if women should get free entry rather than concentrate on the subject which is coaching/training?