Why do so few women play chess compared to bridge.

Discuss anything you like about women's chess at home and abroad.
Alan Burke

Re: Why do so few women play chess compared to bridge.

Post by Alan Burke » Wed Mar 23, 2011 11:15 am

When discussing 'physical' sports, yes women usually have a disadvantage with regard to their male counterparts (OK, there is always the exception, but in general terms, mens' physique is usually more suited to such activities.)

As I stated earlier, I was involved with professional rugby for over 30 years and had direct involvement with many ladies who took part in the sport. OK, pit them against the men and they would generally not be up to the task, but that does not mean they were not skillful nor provide a good level of play when competing against others of their own gender.

It's all relative - A team in the Football Conference could be looked upon as good when playing in their own division, but would generally be classed as 'also-rans' in comparison to a Premier League side.

Would people class Martina Navratilova as 'not a good tennis player' because she would probably always lose to Bjorn Borg ? (Wow, I'm showing my age now !!!)

Actually, women do compete on equal terms as men in equestrian competitions such as three-day events and have won them - but have done so with 'no quarter asked and no quarter given'.

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Re: Why do so few women play chess compared to bridge.

Post by Geoff Chandler » Wed Mar 23, 2011 11:19 am

I don't know how you lot switched this onto horses.

"Geraldine Rees rode a good race to complete the Grand National and placed eighth in 1982"

There were only 8 who finished the course that day.
Geraldine Rees came in last on Cheers.

A lot of people thought she should have pulled up as the
horse was totally shattered on the run in.
But there would have been punters who bet on her finishing
so she forced the horse on (and I mean forced...the poor beast was knackered).

The other thing about the 1982 GN was it was won by the oldest jockey
to win the National, Dick Saunders, aged 48 on Grittar.

So on that day it was one up for the women and one up for the oldies. :)

Louise Sinclair
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Re: Why do so few women play chess compared to bridge.

Post by Louise Sinclair » Wed Mar 23, 2011 12:07 pm

This is not correct. I watched that race and Cheers wasn't forced she didn't make use of her crop - he was coaxed. If a horse doesn't want to continue he usually curtails the race by pitching the rider over his head.
Yes there were only eight finishes as the notorious Beechers claimed a few riders and the grand national usually finishes with only a minority of competitors left. Steeple chasing is tough on horses and hard on the jockeys.
In fact during the late 70's I always backed The Pilgarlic to place as he enjoyed the race and was a great each way bet.
My mother taught equestrian skills professionally so I know something about this sport.
Louise
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' you turn if you want. The lady's not for turning'

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Ben Purton
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Re: Why do so few women play chess compared to bridge.

Post by Ben Purton » Wed Mar 23, 2011 12:23 pm

I can gurantee that in terms of SteepleChasing , I am saying that women are not as good because of the strength involved , they are just as good at equestrian because its then about skill and technique which they can be equal than.

But in terms of competative racing they are no match for the males due to strength. I am not doubting a women can get a horse around a track. There are much better examples of females who do jumps, Cross riders such as Rachel Green is a newbie coming through.

For example Martial Arts, I know women who are technically perfect , E3's and amazing at Krav Maga but they would get handed by less graded males due to just strength, even off the same weight.

But this is nature I guess.

I don't think Horse racing and Tennis are good comparsion at all to test ability cross sprots, as your like 99% skill in Tennis and then 50% skill , 50% at least Horse.

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Re: Why do so few women play chess compared to bridge.

Post by Kevin Thurlow » Wed Mar 23, 2011 12:28 pm

" know that Chess has boomed in Norway due to Carlsen "

Actually it was doing OK before he became ultra strong. When I first played at Gausdal, Simen Agdestein's chess school was churning out loads of good players (male and female), before Carlsen was a GM. There is probably even more interest now of course, but Hammer and the others were there already. Also, Hans Olav Lahlum gave them good tournament opportunities which really helped.
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Re: Why do so few women play chess compared to bridge.

Post by Louise Sinclair » Wed Mar 23, 2011 12:36 pm

I can gurantee that in terms of SteepleChasing , I am saying that women are not as good because of the strength involved
the type of strength needed for steeple chasing is stamina. Women have tons of stamina - nature provides it for the tough lengthy businness of child bearing. Women do not have the brute strength of men but we do have stamina.
Louise
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Matt Mackenzie
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Re: Why do so few women play chess compared to bridge.

Post by Matt Mackenzie » Wed Mar 23, 2011 1:07 pm

Hungary may or may not have had an influx of female players thanks to the Polgars (though I don't think they are doing too badly, either)

What is certain, though, is that women's chess in Georgia took off in a *huge* way after Nona and then Maia emerged - and remains notably strong to this day.
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Re: Why do so few women play chess compared to bridge.

Post by IanDavis » Wed Mar 23, 2011 1:44 pm

The Japanese 'invented'[1] Pair Go to promote the game of Go amongst women, I believe that they had Bridge in mind when doing so. In Pair Go a male player and a female player play as a team. The amount of success that this has had in promoting the game amongst women is debatable, but I would say it has had a small positive effect. Has anyone ever tried this kind of thing in chess? The idea is to impose a gender balanced environment (if that is a real term), whilst allowing lesser players to be educated by their stronger partner's moves (although this quite often ends in tears in reality).

[1] In much the same way as Robert Fischer invented Fischer Random

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Re: Why do so few women play chess compared to bridge.

Post by Alex Holowczak » Wed Mar 23, 2011 1:50 pm

IanDavis wrote:The idea is to impose a gender balanced environment (if that is a real term)
It isn't a real term, because you're talking about sexes, not genders. :wink:
IanDavis wrote:Has anyone ever tried this kind of thing in chess?
Exchange chess (otherwise known as Bughouse) is very popular amongst children. I guess that would be ideal for pairs chess. It's probably the most interactive a game of chess can get. You either hear cries of "Get me a Queen!" or the constant drone of "Stalling 1 ... 2 ... 3 ... ..."

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Re: Why do so few women play chess compared to bridge.

Post by IanDavis » Wed Mar 23, 2011 1:59 pm

We called it Swap Chess in my day, great fun. I once suggested an official tournament be held for it, but was told it was a F. stupid idea. I was just thinking of normal chess, rather than that though.
Alex Holowczak wrote:
IanDavis wrote:Has anyone ever tried this kind of thing in chess?
Exchange chess (otherwise known as Bughouse) is very popular amongst children. I guess that would be ideal for pairs chess. It's probably the most interactive a game of chess can get. You either hear cries of "Get me a Queen!" or the constant drone of "Stalling 1 ... 2 ... 3 ... ..."

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Re: Why do so few women play chess compared to bridge.

Post by Geoff Chandler » Thu Mar 24, 2011 12:14 am

Hi Louise.

"My mother taught equestrian skills professionally so I know something about this sport."

And I am an ex-race horse owner and I'm married to a women
who for 10 years ran a stables yard full of race horses.
She gave it up when the kids appeared and the yard changed hands.

A race horse will not throw a rider off because he has had enough
it will go on or try to go as long as the rider wishes.
If the jockey does not recognise or ignores the signs then
the damage it can do can be fatal.

When was the last time you saw a flat course race horse
pitch a rider of it's back because it was tired?

I've just watched the race again.
(Mrs. C's collection of Horse DVD's and books beats my
chess collection by about 1,000)

On the 2nd lap after Valentines the commentator
runs though the field of remaining horses.

No mention of Cheers and according to some records
she fell and remounted.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/other_s ... 387819.stm

At one point you can certainly see Cheers 'in the far distance'
refusing a fence. Clearly a sign the horse had had enough.

(She was wearing close to the same colours as Hibs, green
with light yellow sleeves.)

My DVD does not show her run in (she was that far behind
the camera crew had gone home). ;)

I have seen the clip on TV a few times and you
can see the poor beast staggering home.
It nearly falls over. It should have been pulled up.

To her credit in an interview after the race Geraldine stated:

“If it had been any other race, I would have pulled him up.
But I was determined to finish.”

http://www.osadvertiser.co.uk/news/orms ... -26190617/

Footnote:
Geraldine rode again in the National the following year on Midday Welcome.
She fell at the first fence.

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Re: Why do so few women play chess compared to bridge.

Post by Louise Sinclair » Thu Mar 24, 2011 8:41 am

can see the poor beast staggering home.
It nearly falls over. It should have been pulled up.
Jockeys regardless of their sex rarely pull up an exhausted horse. The majority of horses will be exhausted having finished the Grand National. I don't recall seeing Geraldine falling and remounting but horses in the world of racing do sometimes suffer appalling treatment- do you recall Windsor Boy and Lestor Piggott on the flat? The horse was forced into the stand and broke his way out causing himself fatal injury - there was no need for that episode.
If Geraldine Rees forced Cheers on just to feed her ego I am disgusted with her.
I love horse and dog racing but would rather the animals were treated fairly. I recall Henbit breaking an ankle in the Derby and his owner spent a fortune getting the best treatment and I believe the horse was a gelding so it wasn't for the gain of a stud fee.
But women have featured in horse racing I think everyone has heard of Jenny Pitman.
Louise
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' you turn if you want. The lady's not for turning'

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Re: Why do so few women play chess compared to bridge.

Post by Richard James » Thu Mar 24, 2011 9:01 am

Louise Sinclair wrote:I recall Henbit breaking an ankle in the Derby and his owner spent a fortune getting the best treatment and I believe the horse was a gelding so it wasn't for the gain of a stud fee.
Geldings aren't allowed to run in the Derby - and Henbit later became a successful stallion.

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Re: Why do so few women play chess compared to bridge.

Post by Jon D'Souza-Eva » Thu Mar 24, 2011 9:23 am

Richard James wrote:Geldings aren't allowed to run in the Derby - and Henbit later became a successful stallion.
http://www.racingpost.com/bloodstock/st ... 8&tab=stud

I knew that Henbit broke his leg whlist winning the Derby and always assumed he was destroyed afterwards. Good to hear he wasn't.

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Re: Why do so few women play chess compared to bridge.

Post by Louise Sinclair » Thu Mar 24, 2011 9:45 am

My error
years ago reading about his treatment I had read that he was a gelding.
Louise
You might very well think that ; I couldn't possibly comment.
' you turn if you want. The lady's not for turning'

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