National Girls' Chess Championships - Success.

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LozCooper

Re: National Girls' Chess Championships - Success.

Post by LozCooper » Thu Jul 07, 2011 3:43 pm

Alan Walton wrote:
LozCooper wrote:
Simon Dixon wrote:A good event which looked like it went well apart from the lack of players for the the U14, U16 and U18 sections which were lumped together.

I was disappointed to see s*x discrimination rearing its ugly head, which is not what you would expect since it is usually women who campaign against this kind of thing. Booting the men and boys out of the coaching room was going a bit too far IMO.

What do you propose to do next? ban fathers and brothers from attending future events.
I've no idea what to make of this post other than negativity for the sake of it. Surely the organisers should be applauded for holding these events that get more girls playing chess and the fact that they have also introduced organised coaching for all juniors at the recent e2e4 event in Sunningdale is also a good thing. They are trying to encourage a minority group to play more which seems to be something that should be applauded not criticised.
Considering the quote started with "A good event" doesn't seem negative to me, it just seems he was pointing out some areas for improvement, for example improving the depth of teenage girls participating, though the second comment seems a bit worrying, I would have expected the males at the congress would have been brothers/fathers of participating girls so banning them from the coaching seems a little petty as I would expect their strength would have been quite low
If you read past the first nine words then it's a struggle to see anything positive. Is there anything to back up the coaching room comment? I assume it would have applied equally to anyone not being coached or coaching. I can't believe that mothers were allowed in and not fathers for example.

As an organiser I know how disheartening it is to put a lot of effort into an event and to have to put up with criticism, much of which is devoid of reality or picking fault for the sake of it.

Alan Walton
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Re: National Girls' Chess Championships - Success.

Post by Alan Walton » Thu Jul 07, 2011 3:52 pm

Obviously we are only taking Simon's word on this, but it sounds like he was actually there, so at the moment his word is good enough for me until somebody else clarifies the situation.

Also by seeing the large entries at the lower age sections, hopefully in the future the volume of players in the higher age groups will improve

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Ben Purton
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Re: National Girls' Chess Championships - Success.

Post by Ben Purton » Thu Jul 07, 2011 4:20 pm

I often get kicked out of females rooms at chess events in the past and I don't feel discriminated against :twisted:

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adam_hunt
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Re: National Girls' Chess Championships - Success.

Post by adam_hunt » Thu Jul 07, 2011 10:58 pm

I was there. The reason for 'booting' the men and boys out of the coaching room was because Harriet felt that it was discouraging the girls from participating in the coaching. Considering this was a girls event, and that the coaching was for girls I don't understand the comment and why there should be a problem with this.

Alan Burke

Re: National Girls' Chess Championships - Success.

Post by Alan Burke » Fri Jul 08, 2011 12:00 am

Adam Hunt says ... " Considering this was a girls event, and that the coaching was for girls I don't understand the comment and why there should be a problem with this."

The problem could be if it is true that a mother taking her daughter to the event was allowed to stay in the room whereas a father was not able to do so.

If so, apart from being a coach, what authority has this Harriet to decide which parents can be in the presence of their own child and which can not ?

Also, was this 'ruling' made clear to their parents before they decided to attend the event ?

Carol Williams
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Re: National Girls' Chess Championships - Success.

Post by Carol Williams » Fri Jul 08, 2011 12:42 am

Alan Burke wrote:Adam Hunt says ... " Considering this was a girls event, and that the coaching was for girls I don't understand the comment and why there should be a problem with this."

The problem could be if it is true that a mother taking her daughter to the event was allowed to stay in the room whereas a father was not able to do so.

If so, apart from being a coach, what authority has this Harriet to decide which parents can be in the presence of their own child and which can not ?

Also, was this 'ruling' made clear to their parents before they decided to attend the event ?
We have known Harriet Hunt for a number of years and to question her authority and/or judgement is quite frankly despicable. Furthermore to describe her as "this Harriet" is beyond contempt and highlight's your ignorance. We suggest in future to save yourself embarrassment you research people before making comments. Harriet has represented England at the highest level . Harriet, Jovanka and Sabrina have given time, effort and support to female chess prior to and including this Championships - yet all you give is criticism when you should be congratulating them - perhaps you need to think again!

Sabrina Chevannes
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Re: National Girls' Chess Championships - Success.

Post by Sabrina Chevannes » Fri Jul 08, 2011 12:45 am

"This Harriet" is our number one female player by the way, so she deserves some respect!

We didn't even boot them out discouragingly, Harriet arranged a tournament for them to play in also as she thought they were keen. In fact I know that a couple of the boys who were there have been taught by myself or Harriet before and were not discouraged by this at all.

Also, if you look at the photos, there is a picture of Harriet coaching one of the girls with the father also watching.

I was just mentioning in the report that it was a girls event and there was free coaching for all the girls.

Some parents even asked about the lecture and whether they were allowed to attend, but of course I welcomed everyone and all of the parents loved Harriet's coaching.

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Rob Thompson
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Re: National Girls' Chess Championships - Success.

Post by Rob Thompson » Fri Jul 08, 2011 12:49 am

Carol Williams wrote:to question her authority and/or judgement is quite frankly despicable.
And this comment is quite frankly garbage. It's never "despicable" to question authority, and the fact that you think it is quite frankly worrying.
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Sabrina Chevannes
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Re: National Girls' Chess Championships - Success.

Post by Sabrina Chevannes » Fri Jul 08, 2011 12:51 am

Alan Walton wrote:Obviously we are only taking Simon's word on this, but it sounds like he was actually there, so at the moment his word is good enough for me until somebody else clarifies the situation.

Also by seeing the large entries at the lower age sections, hopefully in the future the volume of players in the higher age groups will improve
Simon wasn't there I don't think. He is going by my report.

Carol Williams
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Re: National Girls' Chess Championships - Success.

Post by Carol Williams » Fri Jul 08, 2011 1:08 am

Rob Thompson wrote:
Carol Williams wrote:to question her authority and/or judgement is quite frankly despicable.
And this comment is quite frankly garbage. It's never "despicable" to question authority, and the fact that you think it is quite frankly worrying.
The comment is not garbage - you also need to research Harriet Hunt. Questioning authority as a general rule is good and something we support but when it comes to players like Harriet there is no need or reason to question

Alan Burke

Re: National Girls' Chess Championships - Success.

Post by Alan Burke » Fri Jul 08, 2011 1:17 am

Carol Williams .... As the only previous comment regarding anyone called Harriet in this thread was ..."Yes, we were extremely privileged to have Harriet there giving free coaching throughout the day." ... are we supposed to be mindreaders to know who she was ?

Just because someone might be good at playing a board game does not mean they cannot be criticised for other reasons (ie - How to decide about parental control of children). Anyway, although you quoted me, you might actually take the trouble to 'read' my comment and tell me just when did I actually criticise her about anything - I simply responded to Adam Hunt's question when he asked why there should be a problem and I never actually gave an opinion on the matter.

If all parents were treated equally then that is fine, but I was only responding to Adam Hunt's comment who said he was at the event and that the men and boys were not allowed in the room - but never said anything about other women and girls being told to leave.

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Christopher Kreuzer
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Re: National Girls' Chess Championships - Success.

Post by Christopher Kreuzer » Fri Jul 08, 2011 1:18 am

Um, might be an idea for people to calm down a bit here. It was a successful event, and should be celebrated as such, and everyone involved congratulated. No need to make mountains out of (non-existent) molehills. Alan, you are only digging yourself in deeper here - might be a good moment to stop. Everyone else, there isn't really a need to reply to what Alan said.

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Rob Thompson
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Re: National Girls' Chess Championships - Success.

Post by Rob Thompson » Fri Jul 08, 2011 3:53 am

Carol Williams wrote:
Rob Thompson wrote:
Carol Williams wrote:to question her authority and/or judgement is quite frankly despicable.
And this comment is quite frankly garbage. It's never "despicable" to question authority, and the fact that you think it is quite frankly worrying.
The comment is not garbage - you also need to research Harriet Hunt. Questioning authority as a general rule is good and something we support but when it comes to players like Harriet there is no need or reason to question
There may be no reason. That would make it pointless, at worst mildly irritating. In no way, shape or form could it possibly be sold as despicable.
True glory lies in doing what deserves to be written; in writing what deserves to be read.

Richard Bates
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Re: National Girls' Chess Championships - Success.

Post by Richard Bates » Fri Jul 08, 2011 7:17 am

Alan Burke wrote:As the only previous comment regarding anyone called Harriet in this thread was ..."Yes, we were extremely privileged to have Harriet there giving free coaching throughout the day." ... are we supposed to be mindreaders to know who she was ?
Ummm... Here's a novel suggestion. Before making yourself look ignorant and jumping headfirst into the thread you could read the report referenced in the original post? You may have discovered that "mindreading" (or saving that a bit of basic deductive intelligence) wasn't necessary?

LozCooper

Re: National Girls' Chess Championships - Success.

Post by LozCooper » Fri Jul 08, 2011 8:16 am

Christopher Kreuzer wrote:Um, might be an idea for people to calm down a bit here. It was a successful event, and should be celebrated as such, and everyone involved congratulated. No need to make mountains out of (non-existent) molehills. Alan, you are only digging yourself in deeper here - might be a good moment to stop. Everyone else, there isn't really a need to reply to what Alan said.
Sadly there is a small minority of people who seem to take delight in finding fault where none exists and that is something that as an organiser myself I've learnt to live with. Hopefully this won't discourage from Sabrina from running more events as the feedback from those who attend the events is very good and it's also great for the girls to be receiving coaching from our top women players (Harriet, Jovanka, Sabrina) as well as Adam Hunt who is also widely respected.

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