Old Chestnut

Discussion about all aspects of the ECF County Championships.
Alex Holowczak
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Re: Old Chestnut

Post by Alex Holowczak » Sat Jun 15, 2019 9:37 am

Jon Underwood wrote:
Sat Jun 15, 2019 7:28 am
Well we have to ask ourselves what is the point in playing in a competition where the final venue is so massively and obviously unfair it is going to be impossible to get a competitive team together.
Because then you'd miss out on the fun of complaining about it?

Neil Graham
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Re: Old Chestnut

Post by Neil Graham » Sat Jun 15, 2019 11:57 am

Can I say we have gone off at a tangent from the original Old Chestnut about inclusion of female players. Can the discussion of venues go elsewhere please - I have several things to say (unfortunately) on this subject! :roll:

I hope that the stats I produced (four women players out of 310+ in the semis) might have put this one to bed for a while.

Jon Underwood
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Re: Old Chestnut

Post by Jon Underwood » Sat Jun 15, 2019 12:09 pm

Alex Holowczak wrote:
Sat Jun 15, 2019 9:37 am
Jon Underwood wrote:
Sat Jun 15, 2019 7:28 am
Well we have to ask ourselves what is the point in playing in a competition where the final venue is so massively and obviously unfair it is going to be impossible to get a competitive team together.
Because then you'd miss out on the fun of complaining about it?
Thanks for that considered remark.

John Reyes
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Re: Old Chestnut

Post by John Reyes » Sat Jun 15, 2019 2:32 pm

Neil Graham wrote:
Sat Jun 15, 2019 11:57 am
Can I say we have gone off at a tangent from the original Old Chestnut about inclusion of female players. Can the discussion of venues go elsewhere please - I have several things to say (unfortunately) on this subject! :roll:

I hope that the stats I produced (four women players out of 310+ in the semis) might have put this one to bed for a while.
I understood your points, and the inclusion of female players is a worried but out of the games that was default what is the true figure
Any postings on here represent my personal views only

NickFaulks
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Re: Old Chestnut

Post by NickFaulks » Sat Jun 15, 2019 2:48 pm

Neil Graham wrote:
Sat Jun 15, 2019 11:57 am
I hope that the stats I produced (four women players out of 310+ in the semis) might have put this one to bed for a while.
Put what to bed? We know that female players, a small number anyway, are disproportionately reluctant to give up a Saturday to play a county chess match. That is a shame, but is hardly the biggest problem faced by the competition.
Last edited by NickFaulks on Sat Jun 15, 2019 5:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Nick Grey
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Re: Old Chestnut

Post by Nick Grey » Sat Jun 15, 2019 4:41 pm

I am all for equal opportunity. This is where I agree with my county policy on county chess matches.
I find that females want to be considered on their merits as players. if they are available they will play.
Can I say I believe that are not disproportionally reluctant to give up a Saturday to play a county chess match compared to men. I think that putting such an a clause as using females in terms of having to play or influencing a result in the case of a tie is not a great way to decide a competition.

I do appreciate female players. And our discussions.
I have never had a dispute with a female player. I believe the ratio of chess disputes is disproportionally caused by males.

NickFaulks
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Re: Old Chestnut

Post by NickFaulks » Sat Jun 15, 2019 5:05 pm

Nick Grey wrote:
Sat Jun 15, 2019 4:41 pm
Can I say I believe that [women] are not disproportionally reluctant to give up a Saturday to play a county chess match compared to men.
You can say it, but it does not appear to be borne out by the facts.

Neil Graham
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Re: Old Chestnut

Post by Neil Graham » Sat Jun 15, 2019 6:31 pm

John Reyes wrote:
Sat Jun 15, 2019 2:32 pm
Neil Graham wrote:
Sat Jun 15, 2019 11:57 am
Can I say we have gone off at a tangent from the original Old Chestnut about inclusion of female players. Can the discussion of venues go elsewhere please - I have several things to say (unfortunately) on this subject! :roll:

I hope that the stats I produced (four women players out of 310+ in the semis) might have put this one to bed for a while.
I understood your points, and the inclusion of female players is a worried but out of the games that was default what is the true figure
That was the correct figure - 317 players actually competed in the semi-finals of which four were women. This includes games won by default where players names are given but obviously not matches won by default

Here are the actual figures with total players and females in brackets

Open 64 (0)
Minor 32 (0)
U160 64 (0)
U140 62 (1)
U120 47 (0)
U100 48 (3)

Neil Graham
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Re: Old Chestnut

Post by Neil Graham » Sat Jun 15, 2019 7:02 pm

NickFaulks wrote:
Sat Jun 15, 2019 5:05 pm
Nick Grey wrote:
Sat Jun 15, 2019 4:41 pm
Can I say I believe that [women] are not disproportionally reluctant to give up a Saturday to play a county chess match compared to men.
You can say it, but it does not appear to be borne out by the facts.
We have no idea what the facts are. We can say that there are few women players but unless someone can provide some statistics, which of course we can't, on how many women were asked to play and how many were reluctant we are left with the stats I've quoted above. As for the comment about " "the biggest problem faced by the competition" I can tell you what that is as I refer to it constantly on this forum. It's a lack of volunteers for chess administrative posts.

Ian Thompson
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Re: Old Chestnut

Post by Ian Thompson » Sat Jun 15, 2019 7:07 pm

Nick Grey wrote:
Sat Jun 15, 2019 4:41 pm
I have never had a dispute with a female player. I believe the ratio of chess disputes is disproportionally caused by males.
But how many female players have you played? What proportion is that of all your games? Both tiny, I would guess. And how many of your games have disputes? Very few I would hope.

In my case I can identify about 2.5% of my opponents as being female, so lets call it 3% because there will be some where I only have an initial and can't tell they're female from their first name. The number of disputes I've had is very small, certainly well under 1% of games I've played. So it's hardly surprising I've never had a dispute with a female player as far as I can recall.

Alex Holowczak
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Re: Old Chestnut

Post by Alex Holowczak » Sat Jun 15, 2019 7:08 pm

Neil Graham wrote:
Sat Jun 15, 2019 7:02 pm
I can tell you what that is as I refer to it constantly on this forum. It's a lack of volunteers for chess administrative posts.
I think there are as many people prepared to captain teams/squads as there always have been. Those volunteers are just going into 4NCL captaincy rather than County team captaincy.

Nick Grey
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Re: Old Chestnut

Post by Nick Grey » Sat Jun 15, 2019 9:03 pm

5% in the last 10 years.2% in the previous 20, and nil % in my first 15 years. This is improvement. We could do better. I spend time encouraging parents of juniors. many are adults now and it is nice to know how they are doing whether they are still playing or not.
There are female volunteers in chess administration too. They are pleasant team mates as are the males. They also argue less about it on this forum.
4NCL captains/managers kate and Charlie cooke.
plenty of junior chess female organisers. we appreciate our female volunteers organising. In my case at my club we have to thank a female that has organised social chess on a different night this summer.
I know we need larger statistical samples. I agree - there are a lack of volunteers overall. Chess is not all my life. That also applies to many females.

Neil Graham
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Re: Old Chestnut

Post by Neil Graham » Sun Jul 07, 2019 8:47 pm

Alex Holowczak wrote:
Sat Jun 15, 2019 7:08 pm
Neil Graham wrote:
Sat Jun 15, 2019 7:02 pm
I can tell you what that is as I refer to it constantly on this forum. It's a lack of volunteers for chess administrative posts.
I think there are as many people prepared to captain teams/squads as there always have been. Those volunteers are just going into 4NCL captaincy rather than County team captaincy.
I'd let the above comment pass but I suppose I'd better answer it. Whilst we can say that Shropshire don't compete in county chess and field teams in the 4NCL there is absolutely no evidence that volunteers are going into 4NCL captaincy rather than county team captaincy. Firstly as has been pointed out on here on a number of occasions, the rules for the competitions are entirely different. Organisation of 4NCL teams have little or no impact on county sides - the average grade is 130 or so - whereas there are very few players of that standard in the 4NCL. The U140, U120 and U100 County Championships, which make up the majority of teams, will have no effect on 4NCL teams & selections. The main problem, as it's always been, is a lack of people who volunteer to organise at a local, county, Union and even national level. I may actually be able to give a practical example of that shortly.

benedgell
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Re: Old Chestnut

Post by benedgell » Sun Jul 07, 2019 10:26 pm

I think Gloucestershire & Dorset work as examples. No Gloucs/ Dorset- based NCL captain and no county team because they can't find a captain.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Old Chestnut

Post by Roger de Coverly » Sun Jul 07, 2019 10:57 pm

benedgell wrote:
Sun Jul 07, 2019 10:26 pm
I think Gloucestershire & Dorset work as examples. No Gloucs/ Dorset- based NCL captain and no county team because they can't find a captain.

I wouldn't be so sure about Dorset and the 4NCL. Wessex has four teams next season and the core area is Dorset, Hampshire, Bournemouth and Southampton. The latter two being leagues.

Don't Gloucester contribute to "West is Best"?

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