ECF Online County Championship

Discussion about all aspects of the ECF County Championships.
John Upham
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Re: ECF Online County Championship

Post by John Upham » Sat Jun 13, 2020 7:54 pm

My player on board 13 won his game by normal means after ten minutes : will that result be scrubbed?

J.
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Phil Neatherway
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Re: ECF Online County Championship

Post by Phil Neatherway » Sat Jun 13, 2020 8:06 pm

I believe so. I believe the entire round has been scrapped.

MartinCarpenter
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Re: ECF Online County Championship

Post by MartinCarpenter » Sat Jun 13, 2020 8:08 pm

Jon Underwood wrote:
Sat Jun 13, 2020 7:35 pm
I do too as I appreciate a lot of work has gone into this, but it will reinforce the view that the internet is for blitz.
It really shouldn't affect the principles - there's loads of online service/games which manage enormous levels of reliability and chess is much simpler than many of them.

David Sedgwick
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Re: ECF Online County Championship

Post by David Sedgwick » Sat Jun 13, 2020 8:14 pm

John Upham wrote:
Sat Jun 13, 2020 6:55 pm
This is no different from a DS triggered fire alarm.
It was very different.

The Curse of Sedgwick struck for the first time during Round 1 of the Lloyds Bank Masters 1990, shortly after the first time control. Although I was then a relatively young and inexperienced arbiter, I was the only member of the control team in the playing hall at what should have been a quiet time.

I successfully evacuated all but one of the people in the hall. The exception was the late Sir Stuart Milner Barry, who, to put it mildly, was rather deaf. I don't think he even heard the alarm, let alone my urging him to go outside In the end I just had to leave him to it and monitor the situation, (By then I was 99% sure that there was no cause for concern.)

This evening's events were a doddle by comparison.
Last edited by David Sedgwick on Thu Jul 23, 2020 4:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

John Upham
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Re: ECF Online County Championship

Post by John Upham » Sat Jun 13, 2020 8:19 pm

Had Chess.com implemented GSLB or some form of server load balancing then a server being rebooted would have gone unnoticed.

Perhaps the TAs responsible for the architecture will consider this ? Perhaps chess.com do not have any Technical Architects?
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Mick Norris
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Re: ECF Online County Championship

Post by Mick Norris » Sat Jun 13, 2020 8:34 pm

I started my game just after 7:20 pm and it went fine i.e. I won :D
Any postings on here represent my personal views and should not be taken as representative of the Manchester Chess Federation www.manchesterchess.co.uk

NickFaulks
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Re: ECF Online County Championship

Post by NickFaulks » Sat Jun 13, 2020 9:05 pm

Jon Underwood wrote:
Sat Jun 13, 2020 7:35 pm
I do too as I appreciate a lot of work has gone into this, but it will reinforce the view that the internet is for blitz.
Internet is still for the birds. That is not intended as a sexist comment.
If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face — forever.

David Sedgwick
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Re: ECF Online County Championship

Post by David Sedgwick » Sun Jun 14, 2020 12:36 am

John Upham wrote:
Sat Jun 13, 2020 7:54 pm
My player on board 13 won his game by normal means after ten minutes : will that result be scrubbed?
Mick Norris wrote:
Sat Jun 13, 2020 8:34 pm
I started my game just after 7:20 pm and it went fine i.e. I won :D
The arbiters have been informed that games completed normally will be eligible for ECF Online Rating if the result has been duly submitted. We have been asked to pass on to the Controller the results which we have received, which I have done with those sent to me.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: ECF Online County Championship

Post by Roger de Coverly » Sun Jun 14, 2020 12:43 am

David Sedgwick wrote:
Sun Jun 14, 2020 12:36 am
The arbiters have been informed that games completed normally will be eligible for ECF Online Rating if the result has been duly submitted. W
So what actually failed? Was it a coincidence, or is it that the chess.com server cannot cope with (no of teams)*(players per team)/2 games starting simultaneously.

David Sedgwick
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Re: ECF Online County Championship

Post by David Sedgwick » Sun Jun 14, 2020 12:55 am

Roger de Coverly wrote:
Sun Jun 14, 2020 12:43 am
So what actually failed? Was it a coincidence, or is it that the chess.com server cannot cope with (no of teams)*(players per team)/2 games starting simultaneously.
Neither.

"Failed" is not quite the right word. It was a server reboot of which very short notice was given. The ECF Online Counties Championships was by no means the only event which was seriously disrupted.

Chess.com have apologised to the ECF.

Nick Burrows
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Re: ECF Online County Championship

Post by Nick Burrows » Sun Jun 14, 2020 9:41 am

David Sedgwick wrote:
Sun Jun 14, 2020 12:36 am
The arbiters have been informed that games completed normally will be eligible for ECF Online Rating if the result has been duly submitted. We have been asked to pass on to the Controller the results which we have received, which I have done with those sent to me.
Who we pass our results to?

Mick Norris
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Re: ECF Online County Championship

Post by Mick Norris » Sun Jun 14, 2020 10:15 am

Nick Burrows wrote:
Sun Jun 14, 2020 9:41 am
David Sedgwick wrote:
Sun Jun 14, 2020 12:36 am
The arbiters have been informed that games completed normally will be eligible for ECF Online Rating if the result has been duly submitted. We have been asked to pass on to the Controller the results which we have received, which I have done with those sent to me.
Who we pass our results to?
My captain is submitting my game to the Controller, Mark Murrell; not sure if that is correct, but Mark emailed the captains as follows
Your players who were fortunate enough to play a game through to its chess conclusion (as opposed to server or directed conclusion or abandonment ) have played an ECF rated game under competition conditions. If those players wish to have their game submitted for rating they should do this through you. The URL will be required or the pgn.
Any postings on here represent my personal views and should not be taken as representative of the Manchester Chess Federation www.manchesterchess.co.uk

Mick Norris
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Location: Bolton, Greater Manchester

Re: ECF Online County Championship

Post by Mick Norris » Sun Jun 14, 2020 10:24 am

David Sedgwick wrote:
Sun Jun 14, 2020 12:36 am
John Upham wrote:
Sat Jun 13, 2020 7:54 pm
My player on board 13 won his game by normal means after ten minutes : will that result be scrubbed?
Mick Norris wrote:
Sat Jun 13, 2020 8:34 pm
I started my game just after 7:20 pm and it went fine i.e. I won :D
The arbiters have been informed that games completed normally will be eligible for ECF Online Rating if the result has been duly submitted. We have been asked to pass on to the Controller the results which we have received, which I have done with those sent to me.
Ok, but I'm not seeing why I should be slightly bothered about an ECF online rating TBH

The sequence I had last night was that my opponent messaged to ask me why I hadn't issued a challenge, and we agreed to do so at 7:10 pm as instructed; it got to about 7:15 pm before I could get the challenge issued, maybe nearer 7:20 pm; my opponent accepted and we started the game

At that point, my chess.com screen is just showing the game, no chat, no messages, and I was playing under tournament conditions; I'm pretty sure my opponent was too

I could hear WhatsApp messages arriving on my phone, but we had been instructed by the Controller not to use WhatsApp during play, so I ignored them

We then played what was for me an interesting game, not brilliant for either of us, but that's why we are in the u1825

Why can't the result count, even if most of the rest of the match has to be played at a later date?
Why would I give up another few hours of my time at another date?
Why would I be disadvantaged by my opponent, or a different opponent from that county, being able to see what I played and prep against it?
Any postings on here represent my personal views and should not be taken as representative of the Manchester Chess Federation www.manchesterchess.co.uk

MartinCarpenter
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Re: ECF Online County Championship

Post by MartinCarpenter » Sun Jun 14, 2020 10:57 am

Mick Norris wrote:
Sun Jun 14, 2020 10:24 am
Why can't the result count, even if most of the rest of the match has to be played at a later date?
It feels a bit tricky somehow if the teams are likely to - as you'd expect - change quite substantially in terms of who's playing in them.

Also it might make it even harder to motivate people to replay the 'lost' parts of the match. Yorkshire were apparently 4.5 - 1.5 up on completed games, would the other 6 pairs of players want to bother?

Just not easy :(

MartinCarpenter
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Re: ECF Online County Championship

Post by MartinCarpenter » Sun Jun 14, 2020 11:05 am

John Upham wrote:
Sat Jun 13, 2020 8:19 pm
Had Chess.com implemented GSLB or some form of server load balancing then a server being rebooted would have gone unnoticed.

Perhaps the TAs responsible for the architecture will consider this ? Perhaps chess.com do not have any Technical Architects?
My best guess would have to be that their architecture etc was set up when online chess really was unimportant fluff and so there either wasn't thought, and/or budget, put into doing things 'properly' for relatively serious chess.

See also some really basic things like teams matches being fixed to strictly use the servers internal grading list for team matches.

Since Covid is relatively short (medium) term problem, I guess there's little motivation for them to really invest in fixing things.

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