ECF Online County Championship

Discussion about all aspects of the ECF County Championships.
David Sedgwick
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Re: ECF Online County Championship

Post by David Sedgwick » Sun Jun 14, 2020 11:24 am

Nick Burrows wrote:
Sun Jun 14, 2020 9:41 am
Who we pass our results to?
At this stage, you should pass them to your captain. As Mick says, captains have been asked to submit a results sheet with the results of all games played.

David Sedgwick
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Re: ECF Online County Championship

Post by David Sedgwick » Sun Jun 14, 2020 11:32 am

Mick Norris wrote:
Sun Jun 14, 2020 10:24 am
David Sedgwick wrote:
Sun Jun 14, 2020 12:36 am
John Upham wrote:
Sat Jun 13, 2020 7:54 pm
My player on board 13 won his game by normal means after ten minutes : will that result be scrubbed?
Mick Norris wrote:
Sat Jun 13, 2020 8:34 pm
I started my game just after 7:20 pm and it went fine i.e. I won :D
The arbiters have been informed that games completed normally will be eligible for ECF Online Rating if the result has been duly submitted. We have been asked to pass on to the Controller the results which we have received, which I have done with those sent to me.
Ok, but I'm not seeing why I should be slightly bothered about an ECF online rating TBH

The sequence I had last night was that my opponent messaged to ask me why I hadn't issued a challenge, and we agreed to do so at 7:10 pm as instructed; it got to about 7:15 pm before I could get the challenge issued, maybe nearer 7:20 pm; my opponent accepted and we started the game

At that point, my chess.com screen is just showing the game, no chat, no messages, and I was playing under tournament conditions; I'm pretty sure my opponent was too

I could hear WhatsApp messages arriving on my phone, but we had been instructed by the Controller not to use WhatsApp during play, so I ignored them

We then played what was for me an interesting game, not brilliant for either of us, but that's why we are in the u1825

Why can't the result count, even if most of the rest of the match has to be played at a later date?
Why would I give up another few hours of my time at another date?
Why would I be disadvantaged by my opponent, or a different opponent from that county, being able to see what I played and prep against it?

No-one - not players, captains, arbiters and organisers - is anything other than upset and annoyed about what happened yesterday. All four groups of people acted as they thought best in difficult circumstances.

In my opinion the blame lies 100% with Chess.com

You make some fair points in your last paragraph. I understand that the Controller will be having a Zoom Meeting with the captains on Wednesday and I suggest that you ask your captain to raise those issues then.
Last edited by David Sedgwick on Sun Jun 14, 2020 11:37 am, edited 2 times in total.

Mick Norris
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Re: ECF Online County Championship

Post by Mick Norris » Sun Jun 14, 2020 11:34 am

MartinCarpenter wrote:
Sun Jun 14, 2020 10:57 am
Mick Norris wrote:
Sun Jun 14, 2020 10:24 am
Why can't the result count, even if most of the rest of the match has to be played at a later date?
It feels a bit tricky somehow if the teams are likely to - as you'd expect - change quite substantially in terms of who's playing in them.

Also it might make it even harder to motivate people to replay the 'lost' parts of the match. Yorkshire were apparently 4.5 - 1.5 up on completed games, would the other 6 pairs of players want to bother?

Just not easy :(
Hi Martin, Yorks outgraded Leics on nearly evry board, so that's about the score you might expect?

Interestig to see Neelotpal Das on top board for Cheshire & North Wales
Any postings on here represent my personal views and should not be taken as representative of the Manchester Chess Federation www.manchesterchess.co.uk

Mick Norris
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Re: ECF Online County Championship

Post by Mick Norris » Sun Jun 14, 2020 11:35 am

David Sedgwick wrote:
Sun Jun 14, 2020 11:32 am
Mick Norris wrote:
Sun Jun 14, 2020 10:24 am
David Sedgwick wrote:
Sun Jun 14, 2020 12:36 am




The arbiters have been informed that games completed normally will be eligible for ECF Online Rating if the result has been duly submitted. We have been asked to pass on to the Controller the results which we have received, which I have done with those sent to me.
Ok, but I'm not seeing why I should be slightly bothered about an ECF online rating TBH

The sequence I had last night was that my opponent messaged to ask me why I hadn't issued a challenge, and we agreed to do so at 7:10 pm as instructed; it got to about 7:15 pm before I could get the challenge issued, maybe nearer 7:20 pm; my opponent accepted and we started the game

At that point, my chess.com screen is just showing the game, no chat, no messages, and I was playing under tournament conditions; I'm pretty sure my opponent was too

I could hear WhatsApp messages arriving on my phone, but we had been instructed by the Controller not to use WhatsApp during play, so I ignored them

We then played what was for me an interesting game, not brilliant for either of us, but that's why we are in the u1825

Why can't the result count, even if most of the rest of the match has to be played at a later date?
Why would I give up another few hours of my time at another date?
Why would I be disadvantaged by my opponent, or a different opponent from that county, being able to see what I played and prep against it?

Please don't shoot the messenger.

No-one - not players, captains, arbiters and organisers - is anything other than upset and annoyed about what happened yesterday. All four groups of people acted as they thought best in difficult circumstances.

In my opinion the blame lies 100% with Chess.com

You make some fair points in your last paragraph. I understand that the Controller will be having a Zoom Meeting with the captains on Wednesday and I suggest that you ask your captain to raise those issues then.
I'm asking questions, not shooting anyone

I'll ask John to raise it at the Captains meeting
Any postings on here represent my personal views and should not be taken as representative of the Manchester Chess Federation www.manchesterchess.co.uk

David Sedgwick
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Re: ECF Online County Championship

Post by David Sedgwick » Sun Jun 14, 2020 11:39 am

Mick Norris wrote:
Sun Jun 14, 2020 11:35 am
I'm asking questions, not shooting anyone
Fair enough. I have removed the sentence in question from my post.

Mick Norris
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Re: ECF Online County Championship

Post by Mick Norris » Sun Jun 14, 2020 11:51 am

I agree chess.com are at fault; my teammates with lots of experience of online chess tell me that chess.com was a poor choice by the ECF; one told me he had played over 6,000 games on lichess with no problems

I hope the ECF will decide not to use chess.com in future; it's a learning curve I know for everyone, particularly those of us new to online chess
Any postings on here represent my personal views and should not be taken as representative of the Manchester Chess Federation www.manchesterchess.co.uk

Alex McFarlane
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Re: ECF Online County Championship

Post by Alex McFarlane » Sun Jun 14, 2020 11:55 am

An additional complication last night was that people seemed to be getting cut off and re-established at different times.

I could see at least one game that had started and was well in progress until 7.10pm at which point the game froze and both clocks were flashing. Other games 'cut out' much sooner. It was shortly after that time I lost contact with the server. This was not restored until 7.30pm. At which point we (there were three of us here on different computers) started seeing games which had restarted and others which hadn't.

If Chess.com had stuck with the timetable it had given things would have been a lot less chaotic. As it was the arbiters at any rate had no idea what was happening. Even if they could see a game they did not know for certain if it was a match game or one the players had agreed to continue anyway, knowing the match had been abandoned.

It was a bit like the amateur football match that was abandoned because of fog and it was only some time later that it was realised that one of the goalies was still out on the pitch.

John McKenna
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Re: ECF Online County Championship

Post by John McKenna » Sun Jun 14, 2020 12:41 pm

I am sorry to hear what happened last night after all the effort people put in. I did put my name down as a possible (for Surrey U-1825) but with the caveat that I had experienced more disconnections on the chosen platform than on the other currently popular one.

Just as well I was not called on to play since it sounds as if I'd have struggled to complete the game even in better conditions than prevailed last night.

Please bear in mind that online platforms were not created to cater for the kind of competitions they are now suddenly being called on to host and cannot, in a short time frame, easily meet the high standards required and move OTB events and players online in a seamless fashion.

It was a risk the ECF took when they tried the other platform to the one 4NCL Online has already become fairly well-established on (not without some teething troubles) but one that was worth taking in my view.

I hope the round can be salvaged and that things can be improved going forward.
To find a for(u)m that accommodates the mess, that is the task of the artist now. (Samuel Beckett)

Ian Thompson
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Re: ECF Online County Championship

Post by Ian Thompson » Sun Jun 14, 2020 12:44 pm

Mick Norris wrote:
Sun Jun 14, 2020 11:51 am
one told me he had played over 6,000 games on lichess with no problems
They also do "server reboots" at very short notice. They announced one at less than 10 minutes notice a few days ago.

They use OVH, a cloud computing company I'd never heard of, for their hosting, so a server reboot seems unlikely; more likely an application restart.

John Reyes
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Re: ECF Online County Championship

Post by John Reyes » Sun Jun 14, 2020 1:02 pm

thanks for that mick

it might be worth for someone who have got a Zoom Licensed to put forward to used they log in details as I think the 40 minutes basic is not long enough and maybe a bit early for the meeting as Manchester city is Playing Arsenal at 8pm and Villa is playing Sheffield United at 6pm
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JustinHorton
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Re: ECF Online County Championship

Post by JustinHorton » Sun Jun 14, 2020 1:12 pm

Alex McFarlane wrote:
Sun Jun 14, 2020 11:55 am
.
It was a bit like the amateur football match that was abandoned because of fog and it was only some time later that it was realised that one of the goalies was still out on the pitch.
I believe this was not an amateur game but Chelsea v Charlton Athletic on Xmas Day 1937, the goalkeeper concerned being Sam Bartram.
"Do you play chess?"
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."

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MartinCarpenter
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Re: ECF Online County Championship

Post by MartinCarpenter » Sun Jun 14, 2020 1:12 pm

Mick Norris wrote:
Sun Jun 14, 2020 11:34 am
Hi Martin, Yorks outgraded Leics on nearly evry board, so that's about the score you might expect?
It was pretty close on paper. ~10 pts/board average, which you'll often win but definitely wouldn't bank on over 12 boards.

Some of the traditionally smaller counties do look really quite motivated for this. Good to see.

David Sedgwick
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Re: ECF Online County Championship

Post by David Sedgwick » Mon Jun 15, 2020 3:39 pm

Mark Murrell, the Controller, has issued a letter to players about the (non-)events of Saturday 13th June. I attach the letter herewith.
Attachments
ECF OCC Letter to Players 15.6.20.pdf
(128.08 KiB) Downloaded 90 times

John Reyes
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Re: ECF Online County Championship

Post by John Reyes » Wed Jun 17, 2020 11:18 pm

great Zoom meeting today
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Mick Norris
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Re: ECF Online County Championship

Post by Mick Norris » Sat Jun 20, 2020 1:06 pm

MartinCarpenter wrote:
Sun Jun 14, 2020 1:12 pm
Mick Norris wrote:
Sun Jun 14, 2020 11:34 am
Hi Martin, Yorks outgraded Leics on nearly evry board, so that's about the score you might expect?
It was pretty close on paper. ~10 pts/board average, which you'll often win but definitely wouldn't bank on over 12 boards.

Some of the traditionally smaller counties do look really quite motivated for this. Good to see.
Interesting match ups this evening, including in Group A Yorks v Middlesex and C&NW v a strong looking Lincs

Group B has Norfolk v Northumberland who both look motivated
Any postings on here represent my personal views and should not be taken as representative of the Manchester Chess Federation www.manchesterchess.co.uk

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