ECF Pre-Season Regional County Challenge

Discussion about all aspects of the ECF County Championships.
Nick Ivell
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Re: ECF Pre-Season Regional County Challenge

Post by Nick Ivell » Wed Jul 28, 2021 5:49 pm

Absolutely. Chess is not chess if you can't take refreshments into the playing area.

David Sedgwick
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Re: ECF Pre-Season Regional County Challenge

Post by David Sedgwick » Wed Aug 04, 2021 8:10 pm

The English Bridge Union's first face-to-face event since before the pandemic will be the Summer Meeting at Eastbourne from Friday 6th August to Saturday 15th August.

See www.ebu.co.uk/competitions/summer-meeting for information about the event and www.ebu.co.uk/article/ebu-summer-meeting-and-covid-19 for information about the Covid-19 Regulations.

Meanwhile we await information as to how many county teams will be playing in Round 1 of the ECF Pre-Season Regional County Challenge on Saturday 14th August.

NickFaulks
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Re: ECF Pre-Season Regional County Challenge

Post by NickFaulks » Wed Aug 04, 2021 8:27 pm

David Sedgwick wrote:
Wed Aug 04, 2021 8:10 pm
and www.ebu.co.uk/article/ebu-summer-meeting-and-covid-19 for information about the Covid-19 Regulations.
"We will not insist on players wearing masks, but we will provide some for those who want. Anyone who wants a greater degree of protection may wish to purchase masks with FFP2 or FFP3 protection, such as these."

How refreshingly sensible.
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David Sedgwick
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Re: ECF Pre-Season Regional County Challenge

Post by David Sedgwick » Sat Aug 07, 2021 3:58 pm

David Sedgwick wrote:
Wed Aug 04, 2021 8:10 pm
Meanwhile we await information as to how many county teams will be playing in Round 1 of the ECF Pre-Season Regional County Challenge on Saturday 14th August.
Well now we know.

In the Major section (average ECF rating Under 2000), there are two entries, from Essex and Kent. These two counties seem to be the epicentre of mask wearing advocacy, so the Competition Regulations suit them well.

in the Minor section (average ECF rating Under 1600), there are four entries: two teams from Kent and one each from Essex and Hampshire.

Angus French
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Re: ECF Pre-Season Regional County Challenge

Post by Angus French » Sat Aug 07, 2021 5:46 pm

David Sedgwick wrote:
Sat Aug 07, 2021 3:58 pm
David Sedgwick wrote:
Wed Aug 04, 2021 8:10 pm
Meanwhile we await information as to how many county teams will be playing in Round 1 of the ECF Pre-Season Regional County Challenge on Saturday 14th August.
Well now we know.

In the Major section (average ECF rating Under 2000), there are two entries, from Essex and Kent. These two counties seem to be the epicentre of mask wearing advocacy, so the Competition Regulations suit them well.

in the Minor section (average ECF rating Under 1600), there are four entries: two teams from Kent and one each from Essex and Hampshire.
So you're blaming the small number of entries on the requirement to wear masks?
Doesn't science support the wearing of masks in indoor public spaces? Isn't there a much greater risk that people will be infected by an infectious non-mask-wearer?
Also, what's the problem with wearing masks? I'm not understanding why people are mad keen to resume playing OTB chess but baulk at wearing a mask.

Mick Norris
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Re: ECF Pre-Season Regional County Challenge

Post by Mick Norris » Sat Aug 07, 2021 5:53 pm

Me neither

The problem we had was lack of enough players to be sure we could enter teams

Turns out that there would have been a lot of travelling to play OTB rather than Hybrid
Any postings on here represent my personal views

Roger de Coverly
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Re: ECF Pre-Season Regional County Challenge

Post by Roger de Coverly » Sat Aug 07, 2021 6:08 pm

Angus French wrote:
Sat Aug 07, 2021 5:46 pm
I'm not understanding why people are mad keen to resume playing OTB chess but baulk at wearing a mask.
It's a line in the sand. If not now, then when? Is it an expectation that we should wear masks for the rest of our chess playing lives?

(edit)

Following up on this, the 4NCL's latest position seems to allow for a limited amount of gamesmanship.
From the entry form for their next OTB Congress
https://form.jotform.com/212152170201334
Note: I understand that if HM Government guidance at the time of the congress is still that face masks should be worn in crowded areas, in the event that I do not wear a face mask at the board my opponent in any of the five rounds may elect not to play the game, in which case both players will receive a ½ point bye.

David Sedgwick
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Re: ECF Pre-Season Regional County Challenge

Post by David Sedgwick » Sat Aug 07, 2021 6:57 pm

Angus French wrote:
Sat Aug 07, 2021 5:46 pm
So you're blaming the small number of entries on the requirement to wear masks?
Doesn't science support the wearing of masks in indoor public spaces? Isn't there a much greater risk that people will be infected by an infectious non-mask-wearer?
Also, what's the problem with wearing masks? I'm not understanding why people are mad keen to resume playing OTB chess but baulk at wearing a mask.
Look back at my first two posts in this thread. In particular:
David Sedgwick wrote:
Thu Jul 22, 2021 3:11 pm
These Regulations are a good example of what happens if you allow concern about Covid-19 to lead you to blind you to other risks and considerations.
There is no way that I would wish to play a Standardplay game of chess wearing a mask. If I have to wear one for more than about an hour, I feel uncomfortable and sick. In hot weather I would feel in danger of collapsing.

No-one can force me to play OTB chess under conditions which I do not find enjoyable, although I do sometimes wonder whether some people will try.

No-one is forcing you to return to OTB chess under conditions where you do not feel safe. You have the right to stay at home.

However, on this occasion your sentiments have prevailed. The entry level is as I expected once I saw the Regulations.

Angus French
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Re: ECF Pre-Season Regional County Challenge

Post by Angus French » Sat Aug 07, 2021 8:38 pm

David Sedgwick wrote:
Sat Aug 07, 2021 6:57 pm
Angus French wrote:
Sat Aug 07, 2021 5:46 pm
So you're blaming the small number of entries on the requirement to wear masks?
Doesn't science support the wearing of masks in indoor public spaces? Isn't there a much greater risk that people will be infected by an infectious non-mask-wearer?
Also, what's the problem with wearing masks? I'm not understanding why people are mad keen to resume playing OTB chess but baulk at wearing a mask.
Look back at my first two posts in this thread. In particular:
David Sedgwick wrote:
Thu Jul 22, 2021 3:11 pm
These Regulations are a good example of what happens if you allow concern about Covid-19 to lead you to blind you to other risks and considerations.
There is no way that I would wish to play a Standardplay game of chess wearing a mask. If I have to wear one for more than about an hour, I feel uncomfortable and sick. In hot weather I would feel in danger of collapsing.

No-one can force me to play OTB chess under conditions which I do not find enjoyable, although I do sometimes wonder whether some people will try.

No-one is forcing you to return to OTB chess under conditions where you do not feel safe. You have the right to stay at home.

However, on this occasion your sentiments have prevailed. The entry level is as I expected once I saw the Regulations.
"No-one is forcing you to return to OTB chess under conditions where you do not feel safe. You have the right to stay at home." I could say this to you too - and it wouldn't be helpful.

It's not about me or you. Instead, I'd suggest, it's about understanding the science and ensuring people's safety... I notice you're not responding on these points.

A big concern I have is that people, in general, don't seem to understand: a) how the virus is transmitted; and b) what the risks and consequences of catching the virus are and therefore of what precautions are appropriate. Chess players will be putting their trust in chess organisers to look after their safety but what if the chess organisers are insufficiently wise to the issues? What chance of a super-spreader event at a chess event where people spend several hours together in an enclosed space and where the precautions are lax?

Roger de Coverly
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Re: ECF Pre-Season Regional County Challenge

Post by Roger de Coverly » Sat Aug 07, 2021 9:07 pm

Angus French wrote:
Sat Aug 07, 2021 8:38 pm
What chance of a super-spreader event at a chess event where people spend several hours together in an enclosed space and where the precautions are lax?
It's only a risk if there's someone there who is infectious. We've never previously demanded mask wearing for Congresses and matches in winter where there must have been a risk of catching flu or a cold.

David Sedgwick
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Re: ECF Pre-Season Regional County Challenge

Post by David Sedgwick » Sat Aug 07, 2021 9:29 pm

Angus French wrote:
Sat Aug 07, 2021 8:38 pm
Instead, I'd suggest, it's about understanding the science and ensuring people's safety... I notice you're not responding on these points.
I responded to you a couple of days ago.
David Sedgwick(in another thread) wrote:
Wed Aug 04, 2021 8:33 pm

"I acknowledge I was wrong on what was going to happen."

Your heroine Professor Christina Pagel yesterday.

Admittedly that is a selective quotation. She hasn't given up yet.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-58078900
The British Government has lifted restrictions in England. I respect that decision. You do not. That should be your problem, not mine.

What I do see as my problem, is that, at the behest of people like you, the ECF is squandering members' funds by arranging OTB events held under conditions in which very few people wish to play.

Nick and I mentioned upthread that the English Bridge Union is not making the same mistake.

Angus French
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Re: ECF Pre-Season Regional County Challenge

Post by Angus French » Sat Aug 07, 2021 11:09 pm

David Sedgwick wrote:
Sat Aug 07, 2021 9:29 pm
Angus French wrote:
Sat Aug 07, 2021 8:38 pm
Instead, I'd suggest, it's about understanding the science and ensuring people's safety... I notice you're not responding on these points.
I responded to you a couple of days ago.
David Sedgwick(in another thread) wrote:
Wed Aug 04, 2021 8:33 pm

"I acknowledge I was wrong on what was going to happen."

Your heroine Professor Christina Pagel yesterday.

Admittedly that is a selective quotation. She hasn't given up yet.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-58078900
Oh dear... That was, I agree, selective - for Professor Pagel's detailed and balanced take, I'd recommend this and note that we're probably some distance from achieving "herd immunity" (the goalposts for which are liable to alter with any new, more transmissible, variant... and waning antibodies in the population also need to be considered). Also, I hope we're going to be OK with mass gatherings (as will occur, for e.g., with the new football season), with children returning to schools in September and with the onset of colder weather... BTW, the BBC piece doesn't mention Long Covid.
David Sedgwick wrote:
Sat Aug 07, 2021 9:29 pm
The British Government has lifted restrictions in England. I respect that decision. You do not. That should be your problem, not mine.
Well the UK Govt has said "Wearing a face covering... COVID-19 spreads through the air by droplets and aerosols that are exhaled from the nose and mouth of an infected person. The Government expects and recommends that people wear face coverings in crowded areas such as public transport." Does that mean it's alright not to wear masks at chess events held indoors over a period of several hours? Anyhow, Scotland and Wales at least take a much firmer view. As does the World Heath Organisation. I suspect England is out on a limb.
David Sedgwick wrote:
Sat Aug 07, 2021 9:29 pm
What I do see as my problem, is that, at the behest of people like you, the ECF is squandering members' funds by arranging OTB events held under conditions in which very few people wish to play.
"People like you", eh... My concern is about the science and people's safety, neither of which have you shown any understanding of or consideration for.
David Sedgwick wrote:
Sat Aug 07, 2021 9:29 pm
Nick and I mentioned upthread that the English Bridge Union is not making the same mistake.
Did you look at the EBU's Risk Assessment for their Eastbourne event which is linked to in their statement which you and Nick have applauded? Do you think it's OK?

David Sedgwick
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Re: ECF Pre-Season Regional County Challenge

Post by David Sedgwick » Sat Aug 07, 2021 11:43 pm

Angus French wrote:
Sat Aug 07, 2021 11:09 pm
Did you look at the EBU's Risk Assessment for their Eastbourne event which is linked to in their statement which you and Nick have applauded?
I have to confess that I hadn't but I have now.
Angus French wrote:
Sat Aug 07, 2021 11:09 pm
Do you think it's OK?
It may be a bit too fussy, but basically yes I do think it's okay.

The EBU want to make it tolerable for people to play Face to Face bridge. You want to make it intolerable for people to play OTB chess. That's the difference.

Anyway, I come back to the question which I posed before. Is it really sensible for the ECF to squander members' money by organising events with playing conditions under which people don't wish to play?

Nick Ivell
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Re: ECF Pre-Season Regional County Challenge

Post by Nick Ivell » Sun Aug 08, 2021 9:17 am

To answer your question, David: NO.

I'm not wearing a mask under any circumstances to play chess.

It's not to do with the science. I'm not entering that debate. Nor is it a fear of mine that I might collapse at the board.

Quite simply, this is not chess as I have known it. I refuse to wear a mask for hours at a time, unless I'm getting paid for it.

As online chess is to me UNSERIOUS, a requirement to wear a mask at the board will probably remove me from chess for ever.

NickFaulks
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Re: ECF Pre-Season Regional County Challenge

Post by NickFaulks » Sun Aug 08, 2021 9:45 am

Angus French wrote:
Sat Aug 07, 2021 5:46 pm
I'm not understanding why people are mad keen to resume playing OTB chess but baulk at wearing a mask.
I'm not understanding why anyone so traumatised that they have convinced themselves that only a bit of dirty blue cloth hanging loosely around someone else's face stands between them and death would not keep their social interactions to an absolute minimum, or would even contemplate a visit to a chess club.

For the good of your own mental health ( as it is now fashionable to say ) it is clear that you should not be playing OTB chess. Unfortunately, this does not just affect you, since your terror every time another human being breathed in your vicinity would be palpable and would unsettle everyone around you.

As it happens, I know you to be an intelligent person and, at the point of decision as to whether to travel to your chess club, you would do the sensible thing and stay at home. That's fine, but what is not fine is to machinate to make playing conditions as unpleasant as possible for those who do genuinely wish to play.
If you want a picture of the future, imagine a QR code stamped on a human face — forever.

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