Middlesex county footage on youtube

Discussion about all aspects of the ECF County Championships.
Martin Crichton
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Re: Middlesex county footage on youtube

Post by Martin Crichton » Tue Jun 12, 2012 3:24 pm

martin crichton wrote:
... David pressing clock ...

That would be incorrect. My game had concluded by the time the footage was taken.

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That would be even more incorrect. :) Middlesex players...Maria, Andy and David (White)

:)
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my views are not representative of any clubs or organisations.

David Sedgwick
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Re: Middlesex county footage on youtube

Post by David Sedgwick » Tue Jun 12, 2012 3:28 pm

martin crichton wrote:martin crichton wrote:
... David pressing clock ...

That would be incorrect. My game had concluded by the time the footage was taken.

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That would be even more incorrect. :) Middlesex players...Maria, Andy and David (White)

:)
Whoops! Caught out on an ego trip. My apologies to you and to the other David.

I didn't see anyone press his clock on the footage, but obviously I must have missed it.

David Sedgwick
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Re: Middlesex county footage on youtube

Post by David Sedgwick » Tue Jun 12, 2012 7:51 pm

David Sedgwick wrote: I didn't see anyone press his clock on the footage, but obviously I must have missed it.
I've just watched it again and this time I did manage to spot David White pressing his clock.

Simon Ansell
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Re: Middlesex county footage on youtube

Post by Simon Ansell » Tue Jun 12, 2012 8:07 pm

martin crichton wrote:Action packed highlights – Maria making move...
If you only filmed for those three minutes you did well to capture Maria actually making a move! A rare moment indeed, before the time-scramble. Ever considered a career as a wildlife documentary cameraman? :lol:

Andrew Bak
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Re: Middlesex county footage on youtube

Post by Andrew Bak » Tue Jun 12, 2012 11:23 pm

Paolo Casaschi wrote:
David Sedgwick wrote:Speaking for myself, I don't appreciate being filmed at a county match without any forewarning.

What do others think?
I dont particularly mind and I dont think you can do much about it, especially for public events of a certain profile.
I saw myself in the background for few seconds in the CNN report about Kasparov and his visit at the 2010 London Chess Classics, luckily I was not pulling any weird expression even if I did not notice the camera while concentrating on my game.

Also, as chessplayers we cannot both complain about the lack of media attention on chess events and complain each time someone filming a chess tournament: can you imagine anyone having to ask permission from all players before taking a few minute video? Today it might be for a personal video on youtube, tomorrow it might be the CNN again...
Paolo's has expressed what I think as well as I possibly could!
David Sedgwick wrote: Chess tournaments, particularly sponsored ones, are a different matter. I accept that they are public events.

However, to my mind a county match is not. It's a private event and on this occasion the Surrey team were guests of Middlesex. I hope that no-one here would invite people to their house and then film them without their knowledge.
(...)
Perhaps I feel strongly about it because I have to accept being filmed at high profile events. You've mentioned the London Chess Classic, for which I'm the Deputy Arbiter. Being on camera throughout is part of the job.

But I don't feel that's the case at a county match, where I consider that I'm off duty.
I think it's a bit of a stretch to suggest that representing your County in a national event is a "private event". I know it's not as high-profile or professional as the LCC, but it's still an event that attracts (albeit limited) national attention.

My proviso would be that if anybody objected to being filmed and found that a video of them was uploaded to a website, then it should be removed (or edited) if they asked it to be. Having said this, I'm not sure what the legalities around this are.

Sean Hewitt
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Re: Middlesex county footage on youtube

Post by Sean Hewitt » Wed Jun 13, 2012 7:59 am

Andrew Bak wrote: My proviso would be that if anybody objected to being filmed and found that a video of them was uploaded to a website, then it should be removed (or edited) if they asked it to be. Having said this, I'm not sure what the legalities around this are.
Oddly enough, it's something I've had to look into.

The copyright of the footage is owned, unless there are different agreements in place, by the photographer. So it's up to him to decide what to do with it.

Ian Kingston
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Re: Middlesex county footage on youtube

Post by Ian Kingston » Wed Jun 13, 2012 9:03 am

Sean Hewitt wrote:
Andrew Bak wrote: My proviso would be that if anybody objected to being filmed and found that a video of them was uploaded to a website, then it should be removed (or edited) if they asked it to be. Having said this, I'm not sure what the legalities around this are.
Oddly enough, it's something I've had to look into.

The copyright of the footage is owned, unless there are different agreements in place, by the photographer. So it's up to him to decide what to do with it.
Sean's right about the copyright issue.

It is common practice (or it was a few years ago) for schools to ask parents to sign waivers to allow their children to be filmed or photographed at school events. The concern was that (for example) a parent and child who had moved to avoid an abusive partner might be identified and located by the abuser if the latter happened to see the images. Schools have a duty of care towards children, so there was a potential liability if they allowed unrestricted filming/photography.

Something similar might apply to filming and photography at chess events - you'd need to ask a lawyer.

There are also restrictions on using pictures/video of people for commercial purposes, which is why you often see blurred or pixellated faces on TV programmes.

Sean Hewitt
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Re: Middlesex county footage on youtube

Post by Sean Hewitt » Wed Jun 13, 2012 10:47 am

Bob Clark wrote:Circular tables and old fashioned clocks.
Was that really the semi final of the ECF's premier team competition?
I must admit that I too thought that the facilities looked decidedly third rate.

Why don't we play the games altogether in a decent, centralised location. Maybe Leicester? :lol:

Maria Yurenok
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Re: Middlesex county footage on youtube

Post by Maria Yurenok » Wed Jun 13, 2012 11:14 am

Simon Ansell wrote:
martin crichton wrote:Action packed highlights – Maria making move...
If you only filmed for those three minutes you did well to capture Maria actually making a move! A rare moment indeed, before the time-scramble. Ever considered a career as a wildlife documentary cameraman? :lol:
:D I think I was at the start of the time trouble. What's even funnier is watching myself making a move: all women in our European team told me that I "hover" and now I've seen it. I can see how it can be nerve-racking for those who watch!

Kevin Thurlow
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Re: Middlesex county footage on youtube

Post by Kevin Thurlow » Wed Jun 13, 2012 12:50 pm

"There are also restrictions on using pictures/video of people for commercial purposes, which is why you often see blurred or pixellated faces on TV programmes."

That is an important point - if you are trying to make money out of the footage, then all participants should have given permission for you to use the footage, and of course the other point about juniors has already been made.

I'm not suggesting that there is any commercial purpose in this case.

It could be argued that the event is on private property, so the owners of the property should also give permission. But it does get confusing, especially when police and PCSOs start ordering tourists not to take photographs of public places, when the correct response is to refuse!
"Kevin was the arbiter and was very patient. " Nick Grey

Richard Bates
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Re: Middlesex county footage on youtube

Post by Richard Bates » Thu Jun 14, 2012 12:18 am

Sean Hewitt wrote:
Bob Clark wrote:Circular tables and old fashioned clocks.
Was that really the semi final of the ECF's premier team competition?
I must admit that I too thought that the facilities looked decidedly third rate.

Why don't we play the games altogether in a decent, centralised location. Maybe Leicester? :lol:
The lighting leaves a bit to be desired, but beyond that i don't see what is materially different between the Middlesex home venue and the sports hall in Leicester. If the latter is more conducive to good chess it is only really because one isn't given the opportunity of drinking during the game. The value of a bar towards the attractiveness of a venue is, of course, disputed.

Peter Ackley
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Re: Middlesex county footage on youtube

Post by Peter Ackley » Thu Jun 21, 2012 8:51 pm

Sorry, but I have to take offence at both Bob's and Sean's comments regarding Middlesex's venue for the U180 semi-final match - especially as there are based on YouTube footage. It is not easy for counties to find venues these days - availability, cost, guaranteed use, parking and many other factors I cannot be bothered to waste my time listing are seldom all achievable at the same time. The venue that we use, whilst not e2e4 or Holmes Chapel standard (I assume about Holmes Chapel - I cannot find a YouTube video on which to base a sweeping statement), offers a playing venue separate to the main bar area, decent analysis space, good food and drink, a variety of stations and (something not always available in Middlesex) ample free parking.

We are proud to use this venue for matches and, as far as I am aware, still include them in circulations of match reports and so forth. If I were the manager of the establishment I would not be happy to hear my venue described as 'third rate', especially by people who haven't even been there. We have, over the last few years, established a good relationship with them and I for one would not like to see it harmed. Middlesex have not had the best of luck with venues over the last few years - opponents I have spoken to have already commented favourably on the improvement.

I assume that Sean was joking when he recommended a nondescript sports hall in the middle of a confusing one way system with 'civilisation' a walk away as a better alternative, especially as it is the best part of 100 miles away from where both of the teams are based... an experience Middlesex will now have in the Open final.

At least there is a purpose for the U180s travelling up to play Yorkshire. Maybe I should insist on playing for this team (rather than 'playing up' if needed) to at least give the drive a purpose. If I play for the Open team it will be with the 'satisfaction' of knowing that my opponent will have travelled within 5-10 miles of my home before, like me, wasting a further 90-odd miles and several hours of their life.

I really should toe the party line and support the event (ie the final)... but I can't. I play in the finals out of loyalty to my county and my captain only. I've tried explaining to non-chess playing friends that chess players from Middlesex will be travelling from Middlesex to Leicestershire to play against Surrey for no cash and, at best, a small trophy before leaving as fast as possible to get home... They don't get it. When I compare this to the 4NCL neither, really, do I.

Nick Ivell
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Re: Middlesex county footage on youtube

Post by Nick Ivell » Fri Jun 22, 2012 9:01 pm

Sean Hewitt wrote:
Bob Clark wrote:Circular tables and old fashioned clocks.
Was that really the semi final of the ECF's premier team competition?
I must admit that I too thought that the facilities looked decidedly third rate.

Why don't we play the games altogether in a decent, centralised location. Maybe Leicester? :lol:
Third rate? You should have seen the venue for the Surrey - Lancs quarter final. No room to swing a cat. A far from steady table. Hot. I could go on.

All in all it was a disgrace. Lovely village in middle England, I suppose...

Alex Holowczak
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Re: Middlesex county footage on youtube

Post by Alex Holowczak » Fri Jun 22, 2012 9:50 pm

Nick Ivell wrote:
Sean Hewitt wrote:
Bob Clark wrote:Circular tables and old fashioned clocks.
Was that really the semi final of the ECF's premier team competition?
I must admit that I too thought that the facilities looked decidedly third rate.

Why don't we play the games altogether in a decent, centralised location. Maybe Leicester? :lol:
Third rate? You should have seen the venue for the Surrey - Lancs quarter final. No room to swing a cat. A far from steady table. Hot. I could go on.

All in all it was a disgrace. Lovely village in middle England, I suppose...
To be fair, it was your captain who insisted on playing there. Surrey wanted to play elsewhere. :wink:

Mick Norris
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Re: Middlesex county footage on youtube

Post by Mick Norris » Fri Jun 22, 2012 9:52 pm

Nick

Your quarter-final venue, Newcastle-under-Lyme, is the best I have played in this season

The worst, of course, was your home venue
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