2013 Final Stage

[Nick Thomas]

Thanks Nick. Well done on drawing with our super 225 Zehra (and for your IM norm at the 4NCL). My captain has just told me your board 12 was not registered.

Thanks Andrew but I didn't get the norm this year at the 4NCL as I needed to win the last round and lost

[Alan Walton]

Alex, you really didn't answer my question, did you check his history, yes he was ungraded last year, but was graded the year before

It is quite shallow just to check if a player is ungraded in a year, especially if he was graded the year before

[Alex Holowczak]

Alex, you really didn't answer my question, did you check his history, yes he was ungraded last year, but was graded the year before

It is quite shallow just to check if a player is ungraded in a year, especially if he was graded the year before

I didn't check his history pre-2012, but I acknowledge that he has a grading history. Why would I bother looking at something utterly irrelevant to the rules of the competition?

[Alan Walton]

Alex, you really didn't answer my question, did you check his history, yes he was ungraded last year, but was graded the year before

It is quite shallow just to check if a player is ungraded in a year, especially if he was graded the year before

I didn't check his history pre-2012, but I acknowledge that he has a grading history. Why would I bother looking at something utterly irrelevant to the rules of the competition?

I admitted rules are rules, but when you have information like grading history don't you every think about using it?

[Simon Brown]

Another bonkers decision. But ask Council for their view and that's what you get. You need to tell them what to vote for, not give them a choice.

[Alex Holowczak]

I admitted rules are rules, but when you have information like grading history don't you every think about using it?

No, I think about applying the rules.

If I were asked for clearance, I'd look at the grading history and provide an estimate for the player based on their grading history. The fact is: I wasn't.

[Alan Walton]

Unbelievable, the ECF set up a good grading database
, then their own officials never bother using it, enough said

[Nick Ivell]

All in all, a crazy situation. If Lancs had lost the match as a result of this default, all hell would be breaking out on this forum.

[Sean Hewitt]

Unbelievable, the ECF set up a good grading database
, then their own officials never bother using it, enough said

That's not what happened here.

Alex did not look at the ECF grading database because Lancashire never asked for an an estimated grade to be assigned to Jim. If Lancashire had asked for a grade to be assigned to this player then of course Alex would have used the grading database in reaching his decision.

Given that there are 100,000 ungraded players in the ECF grading database it would be unreasonable, in my opinion, for Alex to assign them all an estimated grade, just in case.

If you're looking for someone to blame here, look to Lancashire for failing to follow the rules.

[Leonard Barden]

Just out of curiosity: Lancashire's board 10 Mike Conroy is shown as ungraded on the match result and appears not to have had a grade since 2009.

Why was he not also awarded a zero?

[Alex Holowczak]

Just out of curiosity: Lancashire's board 10 Mike Conroy is shown as ungraded on the match result and appears not to have had a grade since 2009.

Why was he not also awarded a zero?

Because the Lancashire Under 180 captain cleared him in advance of their Under 180 match against Warwickshire, played last Saturday.

A list of cleared players can be found here: http://www.englishchess.org.uk/competit ... onships-2/

There's one error in that list, for which I am completely to blame. Ivor Smith asked me to clear Steven Rix to play (albeit after Rix had been penalised for not being cleared in a preliminary round match). The clearance for Rix is that belonging to Ivor Smith there, because I made a mistake. I was made aware of this last night. This will be rectified tomorrow!

[Alan Walton]

Perhaps Lancashire actually thought he had a grade a didn't think it was worth asking, seems to me breakdown in the system

[Alex Holowczak]

Perhaps Lancashire actually thought he had a grade

Well, perhaps they should have checked?

[Roger de Coverly]

Why would I bother looking at something utterly irrelevant to the rules of the competition?

You should not just look at the rules, but at the spirit and traditions of the competition. An Open match should mean what it says, namely that all players who satisfy the long list of eligibility conditions should be able to play, regardless of whether they have a current grade. The counties competitions require a certain amount of goodwill to even take place, goodwill that is destroyed by the ECF being heavy handed.

[IM Jack Rudd]

Why would I bother looking at something utterly irrelevant to the rules of the competition?

You should not just look at the rules, but at the spirit and traditions of the competition. An Open match should mean what it says, namely that all players who satisfy the long list of eligibility conditions should be able to play, regardless of whether they have a current grade. The counties competitions require a certain amount of goodwill to even take place, goodwill that is destroyed by the ECF being heavy handed.

The issue is not related to his being able to play, it's related to where in the team he should be allowed to play. The rule on clearing players is so that teams can't be seen to be fiddling board orders with the use of ungraded players.